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How can I toilet a train a clever but stubborn 3 y/o? ( a bit long!)

8 replies

Caththerese1973 · 06/04/2006 00:54

After three months, I have decided to put dd (turned 3 two weeks ago)) back in nappies for a few weeks as it simply isn't working. For some reason she just doesn't see wees or poos in toilet as an achievement. Her ideal, it seems, is she wears disposable nappies and I change her every single time she wets herself. (Just a minute ago, I put on a clean nappy and she announced she had wet herself and asked to be changed and I said no, too expensive for Mummy!)
All of this (eg not wanting to sit around in wet nappy, also asking to be taken out of bath to do wees) would suggest she is 'ready'for training, yet she is very resistant. The major problem is she refuses to be taken to loo or reminded. She always says 'I don't need to go' and has a big tantrum if you try to force issue.
Very occasionally she will surprise me by simply going to loo all by herself and then emerging proudly to announce 'I've done a wee/poo!' and I always praise her hugely, but it never gets consistent. I've asked why she doesn't want to use toilet, and she says things like "I can learn to go when I'm grown up' (!). So I think there's a bit of nostalgia for babyhood going on as well...and she hasn't had an easy time of it lately: her father and I are separated, she has to go overnight to his place once a week, and isn't always so keen to go there. Also she breaks my heart sometimes by suggesting that 'Daddy and Mummy stop fighting and we all live in the same house'.
What I'd really appreciate would be basic pointers from Mums who've trained kids at 3+. People say 3 year olds learn fast: and it's not like my dd doesn't know what to do....more like she won't do it! I don't want to pressure or stress her either. I'd just like to know of some basic, definite method that others have had success with. especially with the less-than-willing toddler.

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Kaz33 · 06/04/2006 01:02

consistent rewards - star chart/ chocolate button everytime she goes to the toilet. No punishment or reaction if she gets in wrong, just reward when she gets it right.

Worked wonders with DS1 who was having problems poohing in the toilet.

Mamu · 06/04/2006 01:06

What really turns her on, what does she want most?
My dd was chocolate, very rarely gets it bit did during training. 1 for wee 2 for poo!!
On about day 3 she said "what do I get for a pee on the potty?" replied "nothing you get one button for a pee on the toilet" wet herself in front of me 4 times!!
Finally lost it and said "OK if you you can't use a toilet you must be a baby heres a babies nappy" and put one of her brothers on here. Not looked back since but still waiting for the call from the child protection people!

UKmum4 · 06/04/2006 01:08

ds (no.3) was three in june and potty trained about 2 months ago. two elder children (one boy one girl) were dry by about two and i was going frantic because he just wouldn't oblige.

This is complicated but worked within two weeks after numerous failed attempts, back to nappies etc
Pediatrician reccommended sticker charts with 3 types of sticker
make child sit on loo for 5 mins or so every 2 hours (read a book etc) ds gets sticker for just sitting. a bigger/more favoured sticker for a wee and super sticker for a poo. 2 super stickers for a small reward , 5 wees for a reward. 8 attempts for a reward. etc

I was really sceptical - ds does not rate stickers and charts very much but we took him to choose the stickers and really tried to follow this as much as we could - I was shocked at the success
We had recently had 4th and unexpected baby so his life wasn't quite how he had planned it either.
I had previously had a reward box, taken him to choose pants, got cross, been encouraging etc. But this did the trick for us

good luck!

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Orinoco · 06/04/2006 21:40

If it's any consolation to you, my dd (who is a couple of months younger than yours) would not sit on a potty or toilet until about 3 weeks ago. She knew exactly what she was doing and when she wanted to go, but screamed blue murder if I tried toget her to sit on the potty or toilet.I got so frustrated, asking her whether she still planned to be wearing nappies at school (to which she replied "no silly, I'll wear pull-ups"!) I'd decided to leave it until summer then try again.

Then suddenly, she just announced that she didn't want to wear nappies any more, and within a couple of days she was so confident. She's only had two or three accidents in three weeks. So maybe your dd will be the same?

hth - I know how frustrating it can be!

gigwig · 07/04/2006 19:59

Hello no advice I am afraid - I am in a similiar position. I was just grateful to see your post and know I am no alone.

DS is coming up to 3 and a half and so stubborn about this. We have been trying to toilet train since last summer. We've done all sorts of things, had long breaks in between.

The last attempt was a few weeks ago, which failed. He has full control of himself but simply wont use the toilet for what ever reason which we don't know. He says he hates toilets and is never going to use them. He is so stubborn over it. He even does a poo in his nappy in the same place in our living room at the same time each day!......

I will try the sticker approach in ukmum4's posting when we try again. It has become a real issue with him and we are going to leave it for a while again.

Anyway I will be interested to see what other advice appears.

Caththerese1973 · 08/04/2006 21:41

Thanks - it's been a consolation to know other mums are in the same position.
It's so damned frustrating because I KNOW she knows what to do....my friend babysat her overnight while I attended my grad ceremony recently and said, 'I don't know why you say she's not toilet trained, she told me when she needed to go and had no accidents at all, and went to sleep at 7.30 like a wee angel!' Seems my dear friend, who has two kiddies herself, had a totally differnet experience of my dd than I usuallly have (ie: major toilet stuggles, major bedtime struggles).
My friend, I should emphasise, has dd of same age who is trained: I suspect presence of peers who do the toilet thing encourages her to go without a struggle. She has recently started daycare one morning a week (am going to upgrade this to one day a week once she is used to it). I am under a bit of work pressure at the moment: have to construct a bloody Shakespeare course for uni pupils that starts in August. The preparation is unpaid for: I am only being paid casual teaching rates (I should explain that I recently got my doctorate in Eng. Lit, and this is my first 'gig' as a lecturer, so I am anxious to not muck it up).
I am a single mum (have been separated from dp since dd was two - left him bang on her 2nd birthday, in fact, but that's another story...). Anyway, point being, I am a single mum, somewhat preoccupied with work-from-home obligations, and I suspect that I have not been as on the case with the toilet training as I might have been. That is, if you have to spend two hours a day reading up on Shakespearean criticism (I do hope I don't sound like a ponce here!) it is easier to put dd in front of DVD with nappy on than deal with pooey pants in the park or shops or playgroup!!!
I am getting really guilty about my parenting 'style': I love dd beyond expression, and she loves me (she says: 'I love you!' but if I say 'I love you too,' she replies 'no, don't say it back, just say thanks!')But she is anxious about relationship between ex dp and myself, and, I suspect, in love with the idea of being a baby for a little longer.
So I have decided not to push it for now. She is as bright as a button and very confident: my 'grounding thought' is that no-one, but NO-ONE (even mentally disabled kids) stays in nappies past the age of four or so.
What makes me worry is that the separatio has affected her: I suspect that she feels the poo-wees thing is the only thing she has full control over, and hence it has become a struggle. She loves her dad dearly, but since she only stays one night a week with him, she is sometimes shy and unwilling to go. She has told me more than once that she wishes Dad and I would stop fighting and live together again, and this breaks my heart, as I know that this is just impossible for me right now. She is OBSESSED with my friend and her husband and their family set-up with the two kids and the 'happy families' set-up: constanly wants to play pretend with me at being 'Katy and Cristian' (my friend and her husband) and plainly craves a conventional family atmosphere.
DD's dad is a wonderful person, btw, but had a very bad childhood and this came out during the course of our relationship: he was very controlling and dd witnessed occasioal violence, which, unhappily, she seems able to remember (even though she was only two when I left him).
I guesss this is all a bit deep for a toilet training post, but I can't help but feel that the separation and unusualness of our current set-up has disturbed her. We are currently living in a horrid flat that my parents own and are forcing me to pay rent for (if they would oly let me live here for free a few weeks, I could save up the money to move to a house with a garden and so forth).
When I left ex dp originally, a women's shelter installed me for six months in a lovely place with garden etc for six months, but then we had to move. DD really misses old place and is constantly asking why we can't go back there. It was a great space for kids...lots of other children on the street, she made some friends...whereas this dive we're in at the moment is really sort of a slum, nowhere to play, no other kids, just a loungeroom for watching TV, a lift that smells of piss (if you'll excuse me for being explicit) and an exhausted and stressed mum trying to get ready for my job in a few months....
In light of all of this, I've decided to give her a break with toilet training, at least for now, although she is three. She has enough on her plate. The great thing is that despite all the crap she's the sweetest, kindest and most thoughtful toddler....plays amazing little games by herself for hours (the other day she had a teaspoon and a plastic cup and was playing 'astronauts' for ages....if I tried to join she she shouted, 'you're spoiling it!')
AAAAAARRRRRGHHHH!!!!! I'm raving. But I am blessed. Apart from the toilet training issue I have a clever and kind little girl, and that's what matters above all. I'm so proud of her. She's been through so much and always comes through like a little grand duchesss!
(btw, this her her night with dad, and I'm a little drunk as I write this this. Apologies for length and incoherency. Would really appreciate more concrete TT advice or at least empathy from other mums of nappy-happy 3 year olds!)

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gigwig · 08/04/2006 22:06

You mention such a lot of things, I wanted to post to you. Please don't feel bad about your life now and any effect it's had on your DD. I know it is so easy to say and I don't even do it myself. Reading your post I thought, oh please don't be so hard on yourself. You have done great in hard times.

What you said about control is really interesting as I am quite sure that DS is struggling with control and he wants to control things - don't know what exactly but I think toilet training has become a big control thing for him.

Caththerese1973 · 08/04/2006 22:21

Thanks gigwig. I ought to go to bed now, I think! But your kind post was appreciated

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