When does one have the "paedophile chat"?

[wingcommandermoi]

I have a 4 year old little blondie ds, and seeing him wave very affectionately to some man the other day i thought i should have "the chat" with him. But how do i talk about the risks without scaring him? Or Is he too young? How did you do it?
Thanks all! X

I don't believe in the big stranger danger myth.
I just gave them reasons why I had certain rules, such as always knowing where they are at all times, being within eyesight, not going off with anybody without checking with me. I just told them that I had to know where they were all the time, it's my job as their mum.
What's wrong with waving at a man? Didn't the man wave back? Would it be different if it was a woman?

You could have a chat about not going off with strangers, not getting in strangers car. However leave it at that for now and make sure he knows a stranger is anyone YOUvdon't know and people YOU do know but whom he has not met before. Women, Men, Older Children (don't forget what happened to James Bulger, that was older children).

Current advice is that teaching "Stranger Danger" is actually dangerous. Most abuse is by someone known to the child - if they (and you) believe they are only at risk from strangers it can promote a false sense of security and cloud issues that should be causing concern. Even where an abuser is a stranger, how long/often do they need to have been talking to the child before they are no longer a stranger?

I think it's just important that they know never to go anywhere with anyone, even someone they know, unless you have specifically told them they can. Beware people who might say "your mum said it's OK"

Also that their body is their own, certain parts are private and no-one has the right to touch a child if they don't want to be touched.

Post children are abused by someone they KNOW - not strangers. I have always told dd that she must ALWAYS tell me me before going anywhere at all - ie if they are outside playing, and she is invited in to play next door, that she should never GO anywhere with anyone without asking me first.

Agree with previous posters: any chat should concentrate on what he has to DO, i.e. always tell mummy or daddy where he's going, not get in a car without telling, not let anyone touch him if he doesn't want to (though this can back-fire if you have a child with serious medical issues). No point in stopping him being normally friendly to other people: waving to a stranger will do him absolutely no harm as long as he remembers about not going off without telling.

I didn't do stranger danger either. I talked to my children about us always knowing where they are, the best thing to do if they get separated from us - shopping etc. That they can tell us anything, about feeling uncomfortable if someone asks them to do something, about secrets etc.

It's a difficult one. At 4yrs, I think the most important thing, as has been mentioned, is "keep within my sight and don't run off" and "don't go off with anyone unless I've said it is OK"

When dd was that age, I just explained that nearly everybody is very nice and kind to children, but there are a very few people in the world who are not nice and she shouldn't get in to cars or accept sweets from strangers even if they say that "Mummy said it was ok"

When she was older (around 6.5/7yrs) we starting doing a few role play exercises (keeping it fun and upbeat) about possible different scenarios. I explained that is was OK to shout "no" loudly and run away if an adult or older child tried to speak/grab/or touch her in a way she didn't like and, in those circumstances, it wasn't impolite to do so. She loved the shouting bit and still remembers it now!!

I also told her that if she needed help to run to a mother with other children (someone pushing a pram for example) and go where there are lots of other people, on the grounds that this would probably be a reasonable bet!

We also made sure she knew what to do if she got lost and that she knew her full name, address and phone number but not to give this information out to anyone at random!

And now she's 9 yrs, that, generally speaking, if you go and seek help from someone such as a policeman or someone working at shop till for example, then that's probably oK - BUT - if someone approaches you - be VERY suspicious - even if they say they know me or a friend etc. I've explained a true friend wouldn't do this.

More info here

For older dc here

For teenagers & adults here

I've taught both of my children that they have private places and that no one is allowed to touch them there Unless they are comfortable and say its ok. I've also taught them that if anyone upsets them or makes them feel bad they should come and tell me straight away and I will help them.

We've also talked about no secrets from Mummy.

These principles should cover strangers and people they know IMO.

This has been something we've talked about ever since they were old enough to listen. There hasn't really been a 'big talk'.

No need at 4 whatsoever.

No need for a big talk, it should be ongoing as 2cats does.

There is NOTHING wrong with a 4 year old waving at a man and I am surprised stranger danger even crossed your mind OP as at 4 they are always with an adult. It's when they spread their wings and go out to play on their own you need to reinforce it.

It's not strangers you need to worry about. Far more abusers are known to the child or child's family.

Just talk about certain places being private and about not having secrets and people doing things that make you feel uncomfortable.

Quite madam you need to concentrate on private personal space etc.

on-going with my two aswell - have always 'stopped' if they ask, so when we have been playing, tickling, etc if they say 'no more mummy', then its 'no more'. I'm just trying to make sure that they are aware that they 'own' and are in charge of their body and whatever they say goes. I've had a 'not everyone is lovely' chat but not sure they got it (both 3.5yrs).

It´s not really for a four year old - although my 3.5 year old doesn´t mind it - but we´ve got "The Look out Book" from Scholastic (from a charity shop, so it probably came out in the 80s!). It has a very good list titled "What if" then a list of situations to discuss with kids. I found that a really good way of doing it - just asking my 6 year old "What should you do if you are asked to do something that you don´t think is right?" or "What should you do if somebody gives you a gift and you don´t know why?" or "What should you do if something strange happens to you or a friend and you´re afraid to talk about it?". It was also easier because it was in the book - it wasn´t me asking her - we were just thinking about the questions in the book together.

DD is 2 - she has been taught not to go with anyone of mummy daddy or the grown up looking after her hasn't spoken to her about it not even with nanny.

She is taught no-one touches her vagina - not even mummy or daddy - except to wipe her or if she needs sudocream.

She is taught she mustn't touch anyone elses vagina or willy - not even mummy's.

She is also taught to scream and run away if anyone asks her to touch them in their private places or if anyone wants to touch hers - even mummy or daddy.

Stranger danger is a myth and in fact gives children less people to confide in.

I think the guidance out their is too fluffy and relies too much on a Childs feelings and instinct.

I followed all the guidlelines - but they are too vague, too woolly. Bitter experience has taught me to be specific.

Sorry should have specified, the man in question isn't a complete stranger, he's the person who drives the school bus to the park for games. I was surprised that they looked so chummy and thought I should warn DS (not specifically against that poor chap bless him) against some situations.
And the "keep within my sight" doesn't always apply since he goes to school, but I do trust the school staff. Peripheral contractors however, maybe not.

Lots of good advice from everybody though, thank you very much all, much clearer in my head.

*run to a grown up she knows (not run away).

Clearly these are lessons that come up in day to day conversation - but my only hope is to teach them from a young age about boundaries - because fuck all else works.

Sadly I don't think children can be protected from the biggest danger to them - which is the monster they already love.

wing in that scenario it would be about always being with a friend.