Help with evening melt-downs

[Gavenna]

Hi all, new to mumsnet - decided to join today having generally run out of ideas!

Our boy is 6 weeks old and healthy and normal. We muddled through the first weeks and probably instilled a number of bad habits, including a dependency on us to sleep (on our chest), plus dummies, teddy bears that play sound - basically we tried everything to encourage him to sleep. He was probably a bit collicy, used to wake every 3-4 hours over night for feeds, not really sleeping and quite fussy throughout the day.

He gradually became more and more unhappy and difficult to settle, which was affecting our sanity as well as his.

We're now using Infacol and Colief and these seem to have settled some discomfort post feeds (we also tried gripe water but that seemed to make things worse).

A week ago we committed to the Sensational Baby Sleep Plan and removed the dummies, put him in his own room, and established a routine. The results were almost immediately positive - he now sleeps properly and is happy during the day, and goes 7/8 hours overnight.

It has not all been plain sailing however. Every evening we feed and bathe him, then put him down about 7.30 to 8pm. The wailing starts immediately and quickly becomes full blown melt down - for the next 2-3 hours. At 10pm we tend to do his last feed and after that he will moan briefly and then sleeps through to breakfast time.

Obviously it could be a lot worse, but the 3 hours of screaming every night is pretty horrendous - he makes himself hoarse and gets in a right state. We try to comfort him in line with Allison's guidance but anything less than picking him up and cuddling him for a few minutes has little effect - and I'm worried that picking him up just re-enforces his dependency on us for comfort.

He never really pukes significantly. I don't think it's silent reflux as he has no problems during day feeds or at 10pm, and we don't do anything different feeding wise. Nonetheless we have tilted his basket up a little but it hasn't helped. He's bottle fed so we know he's not hungry. He's fine as soon as we pick him up so I don't think there's anything physically wrong.

What are we doing wrong?!

Gavenna

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

You shouldn't have a baby if you don't want to commit to them and don't want your life to change

[QTPie]

That is a bit harsh: do any of us truly get the impact of having a baby before they arrive? Wasn't there a thread on here recently where a Mum was hugely down and felt like her life was over (I certainly remember having that "Oh my God" realisation when DS was 2/3 weeks old...). It just takes a while for many of us to find our way and rebuilt our lives into a new (better) life.

Then, for those of us with little baby experience, it can be a bit of a struggle finding the way. Babies don't come with a manual and sometimes a baby guide/routine book seems like the magic answer...

And don't forget that many of us were left by our parents to "cry it out because it is great exercise for our lungs" as newborns (whilst they did the ironing or cooked the dinner) . 99% of us wouldn't do that now, thank goodness, but also most of us haven't been completely screwed up by what our parents did (not that I am supporting it!)

Cut the OP some slack and hope that she has learnt from the advice here and is finding a way to soothe her baby much more effectively.

OP, hope that you are managing to soothe and have booked a cranial osteopathy appointment: you should have been able to get one pretty much straight away (privately, but worth it!).

QT

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Also agree that is a little harsh. My DS had colic and then other medical problems meant that he cried in pain at night until the week before his fifth birthday. If I'd known how bad utter sleep deprivation can get I might have thought twice. Who is really prepared for everything that children bring, including the love?

I hope too that the op has taken the time to read up all the posts to. OP the nct also provide a free helpline for new parents, perhaps they could help with your current evening woes, and being the nct, all he information will be evidence based. They also run paid for, although subsidies are available, postnatal courses in some areas. These would give you the opportunity to meet some new mums with babies around the same age as your lovely baby and they are run by a qualified postnatal leader who can discuss any problems you are experiencing.

Op how are you feeling too? How does the crying make you feel? Have you discussed this with your DH? Have you got any parent friends who you could talk too? What does the book say about dealing with colic?

As for your original question, I would just start the bedtime routine, bath, massage, bottle, bed at 9pm. There seems little point in starting it earlier until the colic stops.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Harsh maybe but its how I feel-the OP seems obsessed with training her tiny baby so he doesnt disturb her sleep, and you have to accept your sleep will be disturbed for a while.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Incidentally my DD is 6 and up for several hours per night

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Id hardly claim OP is suffering from "utter sleep deprivation' after 6 weeks with a baby who has been sleep trained

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

No, think op sound count her lucky stars personally and start looking at the positives. The utter sleep deprivation was me with a colicky undiagnosed tongue and upper lip tied baby who then went onto develop other interesting medical conditions

Dc2 had none of those and slept like a baby

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

If I am being harsh it is because the OP needs some home truths for the sake of her wee defenceless baby

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Fair enough. Personally I only know 2 babies who were sleep trained from that age. One choked to death at 3 months when the parents weren't in the room and the other still wakes at 7yo and has anxiety issues, including wetting the bed.

Reality check away fanjo

[QTPie]

The OP is surfing a mixture of sleep disturbance (although agree that she is doing pretty darn well with a 6 week old sleeping those hours), but mainly the complete hormone and change of life that having a newborn means. I would cut her a lot of "new mother" slack rather than anything else.

Personally I don't think that she is a million miles out (with an outline routine that basically works), BUT she does need to lighten up and realise that she is dealing with a frightened, bewildered baby who isn't going to necessarily react like an older child or adult to sleeping. Cranial Osteopathy might well help out a lot, but she does need to soften up, go with the whole "dependency" thing (because that isn't going to go away and actually newborns and babies are considerably less demanding than toddlers... ) and look for "cues" from her baby (and use those to adapt the outline routine that she uses).

I think that the OP is maybe a little misguided rather than not committed to here baby.

OP , do you have "What to Expect in The First Year"? It isn't a miracle manual or a guide to follow, but it does help explain a few things about what to expect and what to look out for etc. I used to read a month or two in advance...

Fanjo (love e name!), I just think that you catch more flies with honey than with a big baseball bat...

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I have said my bit, I probably should go to sleep as DD will be up soon ( not because she wasn't sleep trained, she has SN)

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Think I should go to bed too. Mine now both sleep but I am getting increasingly pissed!

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Qtpie, you are probably right

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Just saw the red mist

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Have a sneaking suspicion she might be too fanjo.

Am going to try to remember the honey comment and try to be a touch nicer

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Although I do partially think sometimes people need a boot up the arse rather than pussyfooted around, which they then ignore

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Anyway OP, you sound quite nice really, throw away the books and go with the maternal instinct :)

[crazygracieuk]

I wore a sling so that I could get on with other stuff like surfing MN, cleaning, cooking etc (ie. Stuff that benefitted me)

I'm a mum of 3 and in my experience it is unusual for a baby of that age to be settled. Kids (especially babies) keep you on your toes and have you constantly worrying what is wrong with the current routine and whether it needs changing.

Personally I'd spent 7-10pm cluster feeding or sorting in his dimly lit room with MN on my phone or soft music and cuddle him.
3 hours is a long time but he was nestled inside of you for 9 months and it feels comforting to be held by you.

[QTPie]

Might be the wine talking here too...

Fanjo, I do understand what you mean (especially from the OP's original post) it does sound pretty horrific, but I am sure that the OP can see sense from this thread and work things out. Being a new parent was the hardest and most challenging thing that I ever did (and I have had a far from pedestrian life...). Things soon feel into place, but those first 6/8/12 weeks were quite bewildering...

[QTPie]

God I may be nuts, but I would love a newborn again... -must be he wine talking--

[Tazmosis]

My dd screamed from 6 until 10 every night night until she was 8 weeks old, when she just stopped. I assumed colic and held her and comforted her until she slept. She slept through from 10 weeks.

As others have said 6 weeks is too young to 1) be on their own to sleep or for any reason for more than minutes, as known cot death risk and 2) be left to cry for any length of time.

This is when your child's sense of security is built - fgs op cuddle him.

I am not a hippy and never used a sling.

[AngelDog]

I feel for you on having had to deal with chronic overtiredness - DS1 was like this when tiny and it was so stressful.

The majority of 6-8 week olds spend their evenings fussing, crying, or needing to be soothed so they don't spend their time fussing or crying. Decent books on 'routines' or sleep would tell you this. It is totally normal and will pass on its own - it's a developmental phase.

It happens for babies who have medical problems, babies who don't; babies who are bf and babies who are bottle fed; it happens for babies who can 'self-settle' and babies who can't; it happens to babies who are well-rested and babies who are overtired. It just happens.

However, research shows that babies who are carried/held for 2 hours or more a day (in addition to being held during feeds) cry about 50% less than babies who aren't. Apparently being carried/held before the fussy/crying spell starts is even more effective than just doing it in response to the crying. Evening fussiness is much less common in cultures where babies are carried for most of the time.

It usually starts getting better from 6-8 weeks, and is completely gone in most cases by 3-4 months, when the biological clock matures and babies start to naturally want an earlier bedtime.

[Imsosorryalan]

Op, please post again and let us know how you are doing?

[Sparklesandglitter]

My DD is 11weeks and from 6weeks I started getting her in to a routine of bath, lots of milk (FF) and cuddles then bed before 7pm upstairs in our room. I use a video monitor to keep an eye on her whilst I get a few baby free hours before bed at around 9ish (I also nip up to check on her at regular intervals (because she looks so cute and cuddly in bed!))
She too had colic in the early evening so I just didn't put her down until she settled we jus had lots of cuddles and milk. Sometimes she goes down around 5.45 if she is very tired and rarely it is closer to 8.00 if colicky.
I will leave her for a couple of minutes if she starts waving her arms once she has gone down, if I am doing a job like folding washing I will say once i finish if she is still unsettled I will go up and 8 times out of 10 she will self settle BUT the second she cries I go up to her. Babies cry for a reason be it hungry wet cold or in need of a cuddle. I am very pro routine but if you leave a baby (this little) to cry they will work themselves up in to a state then I find my DD will fuss her bottle/spit it out before settling to drink and this can only make the colic worse.
So I guess my advice is get a video monitor to keep a very close eye to help prevent SIDS, don't even think about putting him down until the colic stops, feed and give cuddles upstairs and the second he cries go to him but leave unsettled for a minute, 2mins max, to see if it resolves
HTH

[PoppyAmex]

A video monitor won't "help prevent SIDS".