friend just told me she has no mothering instinct- she has 2 ds

[cheekymonk]

I live away from my bf and she has 2 ds, one is 3 and other is 6. She planned to have them and got pregnant quickly with both. I noticed from the few times we have spent together post children she does not enjoy them and any plans she wants to make with me are always without kids. She has cancelled plans when we have agreed to all meet up literally on the day. Me, dh and 2 kids went abroad to be with her on her wedding day and i noticed then how unhappy she seemed. She had planned for kids to be with her on wedding day for years but she was miserable most of the holiday, her youngest needed walking to sleep every night and I could see it was tough. She is self emplyoyed and makes cakes and from what i can tell, the youngest amuses himself whilst she makes them. he has had hearing probs and despite having grommets and the fact he can now hear, he is still naughty.
Anyway she told me that her dh has just had a vasectomy and she has no plans for a 3rd as she has never had any mothering instinct!!! thats quite an admission and I feel she could do with some counselling or CBt to just talk through how she feels. i have known she has been unhappy for some time and lets face it, motherhood is hard. i just feel really sad for her and can't stop thinking about it. WWYD if it was your friend?

Thanks for explaining more OP, I see a bit more why you are worried when you say the general demeanour of both her and her dh is just worn down, a bit disengaged and depressed really all the time

For this I would suggest a friend sought help from GP or saw a counsellor whatever the cause might be. If she had counselling she might be able to find out why she is not enjoying things. It matters not whether a kid has happy parents at home or happy parents at work but I do actually think it matters that they have happy parents, although I really mean coping and not depressed parents.

If there is stress from having a child with extra needs or a real sleep problem, then there are ways to take care of yourself to help limit the impact. Having been in that position myself there are periods where getting through the day is the best you can hope for though, but even so taking care of yourself and doing things that make you feel even a bit better are still beneficial. But if you are depressed or struggling it gets harder to prioritise these things.

I would not suggest counselling should or could help a person find a 'mothering instinct' (I don't really believe in it) but I think counselling could help someone find a better headspace generally. Having depressed parents is bad for kids.

Things like kids' clubs etc, that is normal for many people, lots of people consider a holiday to be not having to look after the kids.

The only other thing I wonder is the things she cancels are when it is all of you together. I used to do this when me and DH were going through a very bad patch with stress after one of the kids was ill, we would row and I couldn't slap on a happy face so we'd cancel going to parties or whatever and just focus on the kids and not rowing. Is there any chance this could be happening?

I don't think you can do too much, but talk to your friend gently about how she is feeling in herself and then encourage her to seek help if her feelings are too much, rather than getting to much into why IYSWIM.

I know someone who sounds a bit similar to your friend. I think a lot of it had to do with unrealistic expectations. My friend always had the 'get married, have 2 children = perfect family, live happily ever after' in her head but she didn't seem to have really thought about what that entailed.

I'm probably not explaining this very well but I don't think she thought if that was what she really wanted or whether it was what she thought she should want. Also she had this picture in her head of 2 perfect children but then hated the wiping bums/getting up in the night/having to be there all the time. She didn't like how much it curtailed her freedom.

She did not cope at all with the baby days. Yes, I know it's not everyone's favourite time but it was more than that imho. Her DC are now 5 & 3 and I think it is very slowly getting better.

Agree with other poster about talking to your friend/encouraging her to seek help (depends what your friendship is like thought tbh). I hope it gets better as DC do pick up on this sort of thing.

Buy her a copy of The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan.

Mostly I agree with MadWoman but I would say if she's depressed that's with investigating. Not because she has "no mothering instinct" but because I think depression can be very debilitating. We tend to think of it as being unable to do anything but i think a lot of the time it's just a general sense that things aren't right. I also believe that most people will benefit from 6-8 weeks of therapy at some point in their lives - its line detox for the psyche.

But when talking to her I would be aiming to reassure her that this "mothering instinct " bs is just that for most of us. I adore ds but truthfully, it took months for me to truly live him for himself and even now, both dh and I often find ourselves mourning the things we can't do/have anymore not least of which are carefree holidays!

Hello Bling! long time no gossip!

mad yes! Where are you now? Did you guys move in the end?

I'm with madwoman on this.

And I may be totally wrong here, but I think your tone comes across less 'oh no, my poor friend' and more 'I'm a much better mum than my friend' followed by a whinge about weddings.

Sorry op, if I have misjudged you. But you don't sound concerned for her, so much as critical of her.

I'm a bit baffled as to why the fact her DH has had a vasectomy is here or there. I've got an only child, we aren't having any more. So what? Are we all supposed to want a big brood?

I have no clue! - we've been here a year since the beginning of summer hols... Can't remember when I spoke to you last!! (We are in the Canadian Rockies. V lovely!)

How often do you offer to babysit for them?

I guess it is up to her if she wants to have counselling. DH and I are frazzled enough by our two, one has AS and other can be hard work,and have no plans for a third. I don't feel a need to have counselling to tell me what I already know, do you know that cartoon of a frazzled looking woman at the doctors, "I think you have what's known as children"

I'd like to think a 3 year old can amuse themselves for a bit during the day while a parent gets something done, so I'm not really sure what this has to do with anything, likewise her choice of contraception. I have 3 children, I don't want a fourth - we are considering a vasectomy [shrug].

My second daughter was a terrible sleeper and didn't really settle down until she was 3 - it wore me down and I'm sure I appeared very frazzled a lot of the time - it didn't affect my love for my children in the slightest - maybe my patience but not my love.

I'm not really sure why you think she needs cbt for lack of mothering instinct etc, yes if she's depressed and needs support, be it counselling, medication, a friend but not for not appearing to be a "good Mother"

There was a whole bunch of us on 3 September practically kissing the ground at the school when our children returned to it. Doesn't mean we don't love the bones of our children just means we don't enjoy every single minute spent with them - pretty normal I think.

I just mentioned some of the stuff she has said recently and told me about. No, i haven't offered to babysit recently. i am 3 hours away! I did help a bit with the kids on holiday but am limited with 2 of my own.
I was taken aback by her comments, yes. I have been surprised by the yeah well it is crap kind of comments on here. I have questioned my own principles on parenting as a result of this. i am genuinely concerned about her but i admit I found her difficult and miserable on her wedding holiday and no, i was not alone in this.
I think she needs CBT/counselling to talk about things and how she feels. She covers up alot but when she doesn open up she does sound very unhappy. I do think being completely unthrilled by motherhood is not great. i don't know her husband that well and don't really consider him a friend so can't speak for him.
sorry you feel like that morriszapp. i don't think i am a wonderful parent at all. i have had PND and had trouble coping with my Mum's pressure that i should enjoy every minute. I do know how that feels but have come through it and learnt to accept myself a bit more. I love how everyone jumps on me! The joys of mumsnet!!!!!

Mad: you were hoping to go but it was unconfirmed. Glad it is good !

Rofl, bling, that was three years ago! Ha ha ha ha! how time flies! We did two years in the one place, then moved here, and have been here for over a year now! Crazy.

I think you have to ask yourself why you are so concerned with her 'mothering instict.' Are yoiu jusdging her? Some people have kids and realise they are not natural mums .As long as they aren't being neglected. Good for her that she admits she dosn't want another. At least she knows her linits.