My 2 year old walks all over me

[JamesAndTheGiantBanana]

She's 2.4 going on 17, she's gorgeous, cute, amazing and funny (not she isn't even my pfb, I also have a 5 y old ds) and I'm head over heels with her, but she's Jekyll and Hyde, and the flip side is that she is hugely domineering, she bosses us all about, has no fear of anyone despite pretending to be shy, she screams, roars, smacks, scratches, pinches to get her own way. She used to bite too but doesn't do that as often now. She's stubborn as a mule and in a battle of wills she always gets her own way as quite frankly she doesn't give a crap.

When she wants something she usually asks sweetly in an irresistible "Oh mummy, I wish I had a peppa pig toothbrush. It would be my faaavourite" way. Then if I don't cave in on the spot (which I usually do because she knows which buttons to push) she will ask again with a please, then Mr Hyde pops out and she screams and roars and flails, and arches her back so much the pushchair actually falls over. We jokingly call her feral but honestly sometimes I wonder if there's a zoo out there looking for her.

Two seconds later while you (and everyone else in the shop) are still staring in openmouthed horror, she has a complete mood change and is speaking in a tiny angelic voice "oh look mummy, a princess soap, it's sooo pretty, I love princesses..." all sweetness and light. She persuaded me to let her walk on the school run today, promised to hold my hand then the minute we got on the road she was bolting every few seconds so I ended having to half carry her as she wailed and kicked.

I've had a toddler before. I know the stages. I don't remember any of this manipulation or being so bloody weak. I come back off every shopping trip with loads of bits for her, she will only eat a few things and if I cook anything else she won't even look at it, she'd rather starve. If she decides she isn't doing something I don't have a hope in hell of persuading her. She demands to come into my bath or shower every time I have one while she's awake and just batters at the door if I say no. She won't stay in bed/go to sleep, she's waking up earlier. She won't sleep in the day any more. Everything is on her terms and I'm so exhausted I could cry!

Please talk to me in small words for I'm obviously stupid now.

Thinking for now shall come back.

Blimey - that sounds like really hard work! If you're tired it will seem so much worse too.
She's at a difficult age for some, but it sounds like you have an exceptionally strong willed child on your hands.
I have no magic wand sadly, but I'd suggest you pick your battles and be consistent. I think your technique of giving in quickly is a good one if you know you might cave in the end - but I think you need to ride out the battles that are important.

Thanks, she's currently sitting on my chest stabbing me with a breadstick because I said she couldn't have the tv on. I can't put her down because she'll scream and attack my leg and my nerves can't stand it. Oh, she's just kissed my cheek and told me she loves me.

I am smiling at your post in bitter recognition My DS2 is 2.7 and I really don't know how to handle him sometimes. He just won't be told off, it's like water off a ducks back, he just doesn't react at all and carries on with whatever he wanted to do in the first place. He sometimes gets upset but unlike DS1 that isn't the end of the tantrum and wait until it's over, it's almost just for show and then he carries on with what he wants to do.

I just think I have to parent him in a different way, he's reasonably biddable but really knows his own mind and is almost unflappable. I've yet to work out what that way is! He also won't stay in bed and go to sleep. Up and down for hours sometimes. He is quite bright though and I think sometimes that he is not as grown up and able to understand as I think he is.

If you come up with a plan, let me know!

Thanks Beamur, not sure it's worthy of the term "technique" - I just cave usually because I'm weak and she's cute and I like making her happy. But I'm steadily turning her into a spoilt brat, without meaning to. :(

he also does the mood change thing and can switch from a tantrum to being all cute in the blink of an eye

Well you say you don't recall any of this with your DS, something's different.
My first thought and please don't take this wrongly, are you slower to clamp down because she's the baby of the family?
Is she like this with other adult family members?

Funnys, that's exactly what it is: I have no idea how to handle her! She actually scares me a bit sometimes. Or perhaps scared is too strong a word, I mean that I'd do anything to avoid one of the massive screaming tantrums which I know will make my nerves jangle and I'll either try to be reasonable and explain which doesn't really work as she isn't listening and doesn't care, or I'll lose my temper and really shout which makes her cry and doesn't usually solve anything. Perhaps I need to walk away and ignore her, but I'm pretty sure she'd just follow me about wailing and roaring and smacking my legs.

We do/did use the step but she just sits there all happy, because we're treating her like a big girl, the same as her big brother. She doesn't see it as a punishment.

that bit about the step has actually made me laugh. The other night after telling DS2 many many times to go to bed and then physically lifting him into bed, I said to him 'if you do that again Daddy will shout at you and give you a smack, is that what you want?' and he said 'yes' and I just crumbled because he obviously just didin't understand what I was saying to him.

My most recent technique has been to stop shouting which just tires me out and just keep telling him over and over. It's a bit wearing though, esp at 9 oclock at night when he's shouting downstairs to tell me he's taken his nappy off and done a wee on the floor..........

"Well you say you don't recall any of this with your DS, something's different.
My first thought and please don't take this wrongly, are you slower to clamp down because she's the baby of the family?
Is she like this with other adult family members?"

What is different is that my ds wasn't speaking at all at this age. so he was a bit more like a baby I suppose. She feels/seems way older. I suppose I do expect better behaviour from my eldest. They're always fighting and of course he's much bigger and stronger, and as she's so verbal and they both lie and dob all the time it's hard to tell who's responsible for what unless there are visible scratches or marks. He often starts it but she gives as good as she gets, that's all I know. I'm really weary of it.

She has her dad wrapped around her little finger, as girls tend to. But he doesn't give in as much as me. I feel like I can't see the wood for the trees here, maybe it's because I'm so tired at the moment.

My Dd around 3 would cheerily whack me and say "Sorry!" in a singsong voice.
Initially I had to stop myself from laughing but that impulse rapidly wore off.

She sounds identical to my now 3 1/2 yo dd! My Jekyll and Hyde is the youngest of 3 and the other 2 were nothing like this! Running off, blatantly ignoring every request, quite literally screaming at me if she doesn't get her own way. I too have carried her back to the car under my arm feeling like tearing my hair out or sobbing buckets. Even now I dread having to say no or tell her to do something as I just know that it will mean enormous rage and tantrums.

I really really feel for you, I actually asked the HV to visit last week as she has got so much worse over the summer. My HV has advised very very firm boundaries and a reward chart. The reward chart doesn't seem to be having an effect but it is early days yet. My dd is particularly difficult when her older siblings are around so we think perhaps jealousy could be an issue. However, as she is only part time at pre-school she has much more time with me than the other two do so it definitely isn't lack of attention.

I do think I have been softer on her than my older 2, however that is partly due to the huge reactions my dd has to anything she doesn't want to do. I am very firm on boundaries now. Request, warning (including whatever the consequence will be), then follow through. It is time consuming and she still ends up monopolising all my time putting her back on the step again or tidying up the hallway after she has trashed it in temper.

We have mealtime problems too, excuses why she cannot possibly eat that or just screaming her refusal at me. HV advised me to provide a meal and if she eats it she gets pudding, if not she doesn't. Her weight and height are fine so she isn't starving but it is rare if she eats more than 1 meal a day. I have also stopped all snacks and non-water drinks so she doesn't fill up on in between meals, all in an effort to make her hungry.

I also use a travel stairgate on her bedroom door at night to prevent her coming into bed with me, often for an easy life I would cave in however if I have to get up to go to her anyway I am much more firm.

So far we have yet to "break" her iron will. She does not back down EVER, and has actually managed to scream herself hoarse for over an hour on previous occasions. I will persevere as I really feel it is unfair on my other 2 DC to let her continue ruling the roost.

Very very best of luck I will be watching the thread with interest for any MN pearls

James DS1 is 6 and so there will be a link there somewhere with older siblings and behaviour but I'm too tired to work it out. Wait! perhaps that's it. This time round we're just to tired whereas with our pfb's we had lots more time and energy to be consistent etc

Funnys I do that too, just repeating the same statement "You aren't having any more biscuits, help yourself to fruit" for example. It does work to an extent, but she'll still scream like a banshee at being denied anything.

Today she thumped and pushed the kids at toddler group, I made her apologise but she doesn't give two shits really. Sometimes I try to look her in the eye and explain that she has hurt them, and they are sad and crying, and that I'm cross because it was so naughty. But I'm sure I read that they're too young to have a conscience at this age so I don't expect her to understand yet really. I worry she's going to be a bully at school and it will be my fault for not fixing it now.

I was going to mention tiredness, sorry you're feeling worn out, I know little kids outgrow naps but does she ever submit to a spot of Quiet Time, good excuse for Mummy to zonk out too for half an hour.

Playing boisterously with her older DB, (nods head remembering her own DCs and ticks bingo card for over-physical rough play meted out on mum).

Thanks for your long considered response groundhog mum, I'll bear what you've said in mind about reward charts etc, I think they could help. And definitely stronger boundaries - it's hard to get any enthusiasm up for that one because I know it's going to be hard work! She'll be in nursery soon and I'm dreading it, I can imagine her walloping the other kids and the teacher there having words with me every day.

At least nursery will give you a bit of a break and hopefully she will behave differently when she doesn't have you there. That was certainly the case for me, DD is by no means perfect at nursery but they get better behaviour from her than I ever do.

Hang on in there, it should get easier - hope you get some sleep tonight

My DD is exactly the same and the exact same age! She is my pfb though and I am guilty of giving in to her especially as I'm pregnant and feeling very tired and off colour.

I could have written your OP - DD even does the bashing on the shower door till I let her in! And I have to get in her bath in the evening. I too am fairly terrified of her tantrums , or at least I dread them so much I will give into most things to avoid them.

Every day I resolve to put my foot down . . and fail!

DH is much better at discipline but I feel awful making him play "bad cop" all the time as he wants to spend what little time he has with her having fun.

So, no advice but you are not alone!

Well, this all sounds horribly familiar. I have a 2 year and 3 month old who has a similar temperament. My third child. She is bright and funny and charming and such a big personality. She is also unbelievably strong willed. She can (and often does) tantrum at full steam for an hour - screaming herself hoarse, throwing things around, thrashing about on the floor. And despite being firm and consistent she tantrums over the same things day after day, after day, after day. She has a firm but relaxing bedtime routine, the same she's had for 18 months. It can still take more than an hour for her to go to sleep. I can't walk very far with her because she will not hold my hands or consent to wear reigns. Needless to say she also hates the pushchair. Sometimes I feel I am in constant battle with her, other times I think she is the most amazing, adorable child on the planet and the best company ever. I fear for the future really, I can only imagine she will get more difficult with age.

I have no idea what the answer to all this is, but I feel your pain!

I have no answers and my DS is a little younger and less strong willed (although also feisty and headstrong).

The only thing I would say is; "don't fear the tantrum" - I kind of try to turn it into a learning time and have to tell myself that a tantrum at 2 is fine, a tantrum at 5 is less fine, so better to let him learn the boundaries now.

If they can learn that a tantrum won't get them their own way then I hope (please!) that in time they will stop having them.

James I've not got quite to this stage yet (DS is 18 months and only just starting with tantrums) so will pass on what advice I got from relatives with school-age children.

Don't give in. By giving in you are actually making them more strong-willed, as they will think if they kick and scream for long enough they get their own way. Presumably if you have been giving in for a while it won't be an overnight change, but eventually your DD will learn that there's no point throwing such an enormous strop coz she won't get her own way.

Choices. She wants the Peppa Pig toothbrush, you agree, then she wants the princess soap. Tell her she can have one, but not both. That way it's her choice, she feels like she has a small amount of control.

Try not to say no. If she hears no, she's more likely to tantrum. If you can say "next time" or "what about an ice cream instead" or even as she obviously wants to be a 'big girl' with the naughty step comment, "those are for babies".

The only thing that works with my niece to stop a tantrum is "you're going to embarrass your sister" - her older sister told her she was embarrassing her once, it stopped the hissy fit she was throwing so now DSis uses that although my nieces are older than your two :)

Ling that's what I worry about with DS2. It's fine now, but as he gets older I fear he will just smirk and carry on regardless with whatever he want to do. Oh well, perhaps he will just have to make his own mistakes.

I echo rock chick. I've got a 2 year old who is a very competent talker and very strong willed. I am terrified of his tantrums but have found that staying mega calm and NEVER EVER giving in is shortening them lots. It's like he knows it isn't going to work now. I also pretend I don't care when he does it and say something like "that's it have a good old shout I'll see you when you're done" and get on with tidying up or whatever. I do the same with food too. I just say ok put it over there if you don't want it and get on eating mine. Usually in a few mins he starts eating. We still have mega meltdowns and I am so exhausted I could cry A Lot! But we are getting better I think.

She sounds like a very bright and spirited child!

My 2.7 yr old will say 'Wow, look mummy. It's pretty. I NEED it pwease...' and so on!
I ignore it, say no firmly and let her tantrum in public if necessary. At home I count to three,
so 'One... stop X/leave that alone' etc. then 'Two... repeat' and if she doesn't comply she goes in her room with the gate shut for two mins.

Seems to work for the moment.