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Original poster

introducing a 3rd language to 21 month old

41 replies

koolkat · 15/03/2006 15:11

DH and I speak to 21 mo DS in our native language. It is the only language he understands well and he can say a few words.

So far, he has had very little exposure to English as we never speak to him in English (this is deliberate as we think it is the best way for him to become bilingual), and I am not concerned about this as he will learn English once he goes to school here in England.

DH speaks French like a native and we would like DS to learn French too as both DH and FIL have lived in France and Switzerland and studied there so we can see how it would benefit DS to have 3 languages very early on.

My question is really directed to any one who has taught their child a 3rd language early on. As DH only speaks to DS in our native language so far, what is the best method of exposing DS to French ? I am concerned that if DH switches to speaking to DS in French now, DS will eventually only associate DH with French and we will lose an important element of our native language relationship at home.

Also my French is very basic, so the 3 of us would not be able to communicate at the same time.

Obvioulsy the key thing for us is that DS becomes bilingual in our native language and English. French is just a bonus.

Does anyone have experience with this and how should we introduce DS to French without endangering our native language at home ?

Cheers

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Original poster

koolkat · 15/03/2006 19:00

any one ?

OP posts:

moondog · 15/03/2006 19:02

One person,one language is the general rule.
Would confuse the issue for your dh to speak two languages with him,but if someone else does there should be no problem.

Most of my family is bi/tri lingual.

moondog · 15/03/2006 19:03

And don't lose your native language,I beg you,especially if it is vulnerable/lesser known.

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CHICagoMUM · 15/03/2006 19:11

Could you not improve your french alongside ds learning french? But another question - if you are living in england and proposing to send ds to an english speaking school surely you should develop his english language now, and not rely on him picking it up at school? Several children in my dd's class hardly speak any english as it isn't a language used at (their) home which leaves them at a disadvantage at school.

moondog · 15/03/2006 19:15

Chicagomum,you're wrong there.
Best way to learn a language is to establish the home one to create a true grounding in language basics.
The problems you encounter are to do with lack of opportunity to speak and practice second language rather than anything else.
It is nothing short of a tragedy when a native language is lost.
Most of the world is bilingual remember.Monoglots are in the minority.

I speak from personal and professional experience.

Original poster

koolkat · 15/03/2006 19:26

Thanks moondog. I know that eventually DS will be bilingual if we stick to speaking our langauge at home. I learned English much later on too when I came to go to school here.

Chicago - I thought it would disadvatage my DS not to learn English from the word go, but I came to the UK when I was 10 years old and my sister was 14 years old. We are both fully bilingual. Most people think we were born here because we don't have foreign accents and it's only when they see our rather strange surnames that they realise we are not English !

I think I learned English in just over 8 months at school and I was much older than DS when I learned it! If it hadn't been for my own experience I would be teaching DS English now, but that would I think put our native language at risk. I know loads and loads of Indians and Chinese people in London whose regret again and again is that their parents did not speak to them in their mother language when they were small and they therefore have no knowledge of their parents' language.

I don't want a bollocking from a teenage DS later when he will blame me for not teaching him so that he could understand what DH and I are saying

As moondog says, I think that is such a shame and a wasted opportunity.

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Original poster

koolkat · 15/03/2006 19:27

moondog - snap - just crossed posts - totally agree

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MrsBigD · 15/03/2006 19:52

moondog, best bet is 1 person one language. As for not being exposed to English much prior to school... he'll pick it up soon enough. Also if he watches TV he's bound to learn some. Not that I'm advocating plonking him infront of the TV too much ;) but dd actually has picked up some Spanish from Dora the Explorer. btw we are bringing dd and ds up 'only' bi-lingual due to our own language restrictions. Though as we have a Polish nanny dd actually keeps singing Polish nursery songs to me :) So the more exposure the better I think. Fair enough dd was a bit slow to start talking properly but now aged 4 she won't shut up

So I'd say GO FOR IT

MrsBigD · 15/03/2006 19:52

koolcat I mean! ARgh so need sleep...

meant to write... agree with moondog...

CHICagoMUM · 15/03/2006 19:57

I don't know what your "1st" and "2nd" and indeed "3rd" are, but I would say that as a mother of a child who goes to school in london that those children who don't have a grasp of the english language are at a disadvantage and are also (and I may be slatted for saying this) hindering those who do as they take up more of the teachers time getting them to understand what is being asked of them.

MrsBigD · 15/03/2006 20:02

[slat][slat][slatt]

I see where you are coming from CM, however, if the school, teachers and parents work together this should not be an issue.

e.g. dd started in a nursery where I think only 20% of the nursery kids in her class could be classed as 'white caucasians' (and I'm counting an Irish/Iranian mix! and my dd who's a total bitser) and maybe only 50% with English as 1st language. However, every Friday those who were 'lagging' behind had their own 'story time' to improve their language skills. By the time they reach reception they'll be more than fine

jennifersofia · 15/03/2006 20:19

Well, just to add to the mix, as a teacher in a London primary to many students who have English as a an additional language, I would say that they are greatly disadvantaged. Doing mock SATs exams this week with year 2's it was clear that many of them were nowhere near capable of doing them because of problems with reading/writing in English. This is after 4 years in a decent school with good teachers, and a huge amount of emphasis on speaking and listening.
I do think it is great that you are keeping your native language and am very in favour of bilingualism (or trilingualism for that matter) but it might be good to consider introducing English before French.

MrsBigD · 15/03/2006 20:28

jennifersofia I've come across quite a few now of course teenagers who have English as their first language and don't sound like they could string a proper sentence together not to mention write a grammatically correct short essay

milward · 15/03/2006 20:33

Could let your ds watch french kids programmes. Get some french comics for him to look at & your dh can read the stories to him. Your dh could also talk to him in french when it suits - for eg he could give the words for items & play games in the language.

lucy5 · 15/03/2006 20:45

I am an EAL teacher and in my experience, Eal children are at a disadvantage in the beginning years,owever once they catch up they are on par or over English as a first language children. I would suggest looking at the schools in your area and seeing which languages are predominant. If your language is predominant I would advise exposing your child to English as soon as possible. Eal Kids do tend to stick together with children of their own language and vice versa.

I also speak as a mother of a child with a different language. My dd is five and we live in Spain with English as the home language. She went for a year to Spanish Infant school and became shy and introverted and picked up hardly any Spanish at all and stuck very closely to the other non-Spanish speakers. We moved her to an International school where she is taught in English and has lessons in Spanish and she is now virtually bilingual. I think alot depends on the child, my dd was shy and this immersion didnt work for her at all, when she first went to the international school, she used sign language to communicate which was absolutely heartbreaking. On the otherhand she has a friend who started school at a much younger age and is now fluent in Spanish, and German and can get by in English and Farsi.

lucy5 · 15/03/2006 20:46

Oops not the mother of a child with a different language but a different languge to where we live.

Original poster

koolkat · 15/03/2006 23:00

My DS would be at far greater danger of losing his native language if we didn't speak it to him at home. In the short term he may be at a slight disadvantge to native English speakers, but the experts say that bilingual and trilingual children do extremely well at school, often better than the natives. Being bilingual myself and knowing many many bilinguals, I would say on average they are quite smart and at a great advanatge when it comes to find jobs

I learned English at 10 years old and not only did it not disadvnatge me (only in so far as I was bullied because I was an immigrant with no English), but by the time I was 18 I was winning English Literature awards at school

As for disadvantaging the English kids, it all depends on your views about multiculturalism in schools I guess. I am very much in favour of my DS mixing with lots of nationalities and learning their languages too ! My sister's DD came home with a load of Russian words one day. Of course my sister knew where she had learned them, my niece's best friend at school was Russian !

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MrsBigD · 16/03/2006 06:37

am defo with koolkat re the multicutural bit!

I a time where we life in multicultural settings maybe some schools need to rethink their strategies? now there's a loaded subject for a new thread!

Original poster

koolkat · 16/03/2006 07:52

MrsBigD - - I didn't realise this would end up like this - but that's MN for you
I have tried living in other areas of the UK, but always ended up back here because London is where I can waddle in my own multicultural, pink bubbly drinking, armchair socialist way of life ! I hope my son will do the same

OP posts:

MrsBigD · 16/03/2006 08:11

koolkat... you have time for sipping pink bubbly? LOL

Original poster

koolkat · 16/03/2006 11:50

No I don't, nor the money at the moment, it's just a dream, but when I do, will you join me for a glass (or 2 or 3 or 4....) ???

OP posts:

MrsBigD · 16/03/2006 12:03

of course I would but cushion the floor... my tolerance is not what it used to be... so comfy seating on the floor after 3rd or 4th glass would be appreciated

but we are digressing from the thread. ;)

MrsBigD · 16/03/2006 12:15

btw what is this rare first language your disadvantaging your ds with?

lucy5 · 16/03/2006 12:31

I dont think anyone was saying that was being disadvantaged by the first language but that he would be at a disadvantage not knowing English. It's important to keep the mother tongue. But surely if a child is going to be educated in English and you have access to that language, it would be more useful to teach your child that language as well, rather than moving on to a third language which will be of little use to the child until a later date. Also French lessons are widely available at most schools from an early age.

MrsBigD · 16/03/2006 12:37

lucy 5 ... i thought my would have indicated that I was speaking in jest :)

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