when yours is the horrible one?

[blondiep14]

My DS1 is 4.5.
A 'handful' and quite hard work.
Lots of tantrums, some obsessive behaviour and rages.

However, when he is out and about he is pretty much as good as gold. If his grandparents take him out for the day he behaves really well. Never had any problems at pre-school or his taster mornings at primary school earlier in the Summer.

There are some children he knows well, known since they were babies, gone to pre-school together. Parents all friends etc. We don't see them on a weekly basis or anything. Sort of birthday's, try and meet up in holidays etc.

Anyway, he gets so boisterous and aggressive with these children (who aren't like that at all. Not saintly, but normal kids) today they came around for lunch and DS managed to scratch one of the little ones and also upset one of the girls his age.

He knows this behaviour is wrong and I'm sure some of it is from pent-up excitement or whatever but obviously it's not on.
I try and not get him too excited about things in advance.
Talk to him about how he needs to be nice to people, do as you would be done by etc.
But when it comes to it he is always aggressive with at least one.

Why?
And, more to the point, what do I do about it?

Blondie I feel your pain.
My son is 4.5 too and always seems to be the naughtiest child in any given situation.

I wish I had some good advice but I've been feeling really quite down about this recently as his behaviour over summer has been pretty dreadful. I don't have a clue how to handle this and am living in the vague hope that he will improve when he starts school.

I too feel your pain. Both of mine were like this. Eldest DC now 14 and he's grown out of it and is a nice good lad! 1O yr old hasn't and is being assessed for ADHD and ODD.

My DS was like this up until a year ago. He still has his moments. He's 9 in October.

He was always the one stropping, grumping, not participating, disrupting. Except at school. Angel @ school. I remember spending every week at Music Toddler Group being mortified at his behaviour, whilst all my friends' children had angels that complied and behaved beautifully.

Then I had DD and some of them had monsters. Ah! The schadenfreude! Poor things.

Something my mum said stayed with me. She has over 50 years experience of primary education so speaks with much, much knowledge. She said "Challenging children make intersting adults."

I like that. A LOT. Hang on in there, op.

Oh and a friend of mine lent me this book, which has a great section in it about "intense" children, which is exactly what my DS is - you also describe a few of the characteristics.

It has some really good tips in, and most of all, lots of positive examples of how intense children can bring joy.

Apparently if they're like this when they're small, they tend to be better behaved as teenagers(!!). We'll see!! DS1 was a nightmare when he was small, scratching other children, just being the menace in any given situation, but now things are much easier these days with only the odd episode every so often (which I would assume is quite normal).

We've had some similar issues with ds2 recently, he'd never been particularly naughty, just a normal kid that had his moments, but in the last 8 weeks his behaviour has really dipped. When he hit 2 children at a soft play at the start of the holidays I was mortified, he did it for no reason at all.

He's always been absolutely fine at nursery so I'm trying to convince myself sure it's just that he's almost 5 (in 2 months) and that he's ready for school.

Good luck OP and everyone, here's to our future 'interesting adults'!!!

I think it must be very very weird if a parent never has the experience of theirs being the horrible child. Life on Mars, or what?

DS is still very little (18mo) but I had some experience of this today - took him to the park and when another little boy climbed up onto the little play house thing DS said 'no' and pushed him I was so embarassed, this wee boy's mum was standing next to me at the time.

He was knocked over at the zoo the other day by another child and I can definitely say it was worse being the mother of the naughty one than the mother of the one sat on the floor!

I have a friend who's DS is just the same - he's aged 5. He finds it difficult making friends at school as he's too 'physical'. I don't think he means to be and just gets very excitable when around other children. My DS has taken to him and although I think my DS gets a little overwhelmed by him at times he seems to cope with him very well. The more time they spend together the better my friends DS is as it almost becomes 'normal' so not as much excitement ensues! I have found that people (especially adults) shy away from him and try to discourage their children from playing with him which actually doesn't help. Good luck OP. No one's child is a saint and anyone who tells you otherwise is a big fat liar!

Thanks all - am on the train so on phone but will read thru properly tomorrow, especially the book linked to.

Intense is a very good way of describing DS.

My dd2 was definitely this! On her first day in reception she punched an older boy because he was being annoying....

She's 8 now and still challenging but sweet with her friends. She gets very grumpy though and has been known to ignore adults when in a mood which leaves me cringing...

I try to focus on the positives and label her 'feisty'

Umm I have one of those, but mine is 6

She is a master of the stonewall technique

OP I could have written your post myself. My DS is almost 4 and has been like this since he was very young - since he turned 1 really. In so many ways he is a wonderful boy - so bright, interested in things, full of beans etc. He can behave really, really well a lot of the time. BUT he struggles socially. He is VERY physical and seems simply unable to control himself with other children. He is constantly asking me to arrange to meet up with friends and their children, he loves being with other kids, but when we do meet up it almost always ends in tears. What you wrote about it being over-excitement really strikes a cord with me. I really think that's what it is with my son. There is no malice in his aggression or intention to hurt anyone, he just seems not to really realize what he is doing or what the consequences are. That and he is just a really physical boy (he is constantly on the move, loves all sports etc).

I also talk to him in advance of situations about what kind of behaviour I expect and he always promises to behave, but he can't always control himself.

To be honest, I don't think there's anything more we can do - just be consistent about the behaviour we expect and try to avoid situations that are likely to cause problems. For example, we pretty much don't do playdates at other people's houses any more as they are usually a nightmare, much easier to meet somewhere else ie at the park etc as it gives a focus for the play. I do this as much for my son as for me - while I know that he has to learn how to deal with these situations and learn how to behave appropriately, I don't want to knowingly put him in a situation that is likely to end with me giving him a telling off. And I am also sick of the embarrassment and guilt I feel when he does misbehave.

He is usually good at nursery although there have been some incidents. He has improved loads over the last year or so and I am hoping that it is just something that will resolve itself entirely as he gets older. For example, my DH is a wonderful, kind, gentle guy but my MIL told me he was "a little s*" when he was small - and that is the one & only time I have ever heard her swear!! I am also hoping that when he starts his new nursery next week he might make friends with some other kids who are more like him in their temperament - at the moment he seems to gravitate towards the gentler kids and that just makes it worse!

So, no real advice I'm afraid. Just empathy and hope that it will improve, slowly but surely! And try to focus on all the great stuff rather than just on this one thing.

I second the book suggestion (Raising your Spirited Child). I've just finished reading it and now DH is too (must be useful as he's pretty much finished it as well).

My DS is 4.5 too. He is like yours Blondie in many ways - frequent tantrums and rages. Luckily the rages are mainly directed at me at the moment, but he has been known to be too physical/aggressive with other children too. Like yours he can get very over excited and boisterous in company, but is also quite shy and reserved at times too. The book helped me to understand why this might be - he is actually quite introverted and needs his peace/space. But he is also pretty lively and "intense" and so sometimes with too many people/people he doesn't know too well he goes a bit crazy, with less than ideal consequences!

A bit too much too explain in one post, and in any case your DS is no doubt different in the detail. But as I say, the book really helped me to understand my DS and feel better about the less positive aspects of his behaviour (and find more ways to manage him/avoid flashpoints).

In summary, my approach is to try to reduce the triggers, and help him understand his emotions but also to keep on with the consistent discipline (in my case, loss of daily smiley faces/pocket money) whenever he is aggressive or (seriously) disobedient. His behaviour has been particularly wearing in the last week or so, but having read the book I do worry much less than I used to that there is anything "wrong" with either him or my parenting. Easier said than done when your child seems so much more challenging than the average!

Hope the book is useful to you too.

x posts with you bcmummy. Think you and I are on the same wavelength (hope you don't mind me saying).

As it happens, my DS has a little (girl) friend of a similar age. I'm sure she would be classed as "spirited" as per the book, though in a different way. Very intense, but tends to smother people with her desire to be friends with them. Rather un-inhibited. Often gets very over-excited and things end in tears. She and my DS together are a handful. But they do really have fun together. Before I knew her very well I knew her a bit and (I'm a bit ashamed to say) wondered if there was something a bit odd about her. I think I understand a bit more now. In some ways, more "usual" children seem a bit dull in comparison . However, am still hoping my DD doesn't turn out quite the same - just to make my life a bit easier, you understand! She's at the age now, just over 2, when my DS started to become a bit more volatile. Up til then he was a pretty easy-going little chap.

Milco and bcmummy - thanks so much.
Will be back in the morning!

Lots to look at and come back to discuss. Bloody glad it's not just me tho!

Hi OP,

Another one here with a spirited ds who explodes easily and regularly. He can explode over anything - the last rage was because he couldn't find a plate. I remember clearly the stage you describe - when you feel on edge because you don't know what he's going to do next. He is 9 now and when I look back I do see that he has matured a lot. I still find him really challenging though and have many "why me" moments, especially as I also have 2 dds who are easy to handle. To put it bluntly my dds are what I expected from having children, and ds was/is a huge shock to the system! He is getting better at controlling himself but still a long way to go.

The many wonderful things about him are what keep me positive - he is so loving, funny, creative, curious and insightful. He also behaves well at school and is doing ok but is probably dyslexic and I think it all fits together really.

Like others have said, we find clear boundaries extra important with ds, as he pushes against them so much more than his sisters. I also find that having a strict routine (more strict than I would naturally want) helps - that way he knows what's going to happen and it's one less thing to have a fight about. The rest of the time I try to leave him alone as much as possible - he HATES being directed and just wants to do his own thing.

The hardest thing for me is staying patient when he's grumbling and arguing about EVERYTHING I ask him to do and it feels so unfair on the dds who (mostly) just do what I ask!

We do use rewards/consequences but I've never been that convinced that they have much effect with ds - he isn't at all bothered about pleasing me or anyone else. I feel that I have very little influence over him - he engages/complies when HE decides to. These children will certainly make very interesting adults!

Things that help with my DS:

• Letting him know in advance exactly what is happening and when. eg we have a busy summer timetable - so detail required would be eg Thursday is tennis club, from 10 til 3. Then I'll pick you up and we may go to the park for a bit. Then we'll come home, via the shops and post office. We are having shepherds pie for dinner. Tomorrow we're going to friends house, all day. etc." Every night time, he wants to know what is happening the rest of the week. Surprises are OK, with warning if not nice ones where possible.
• He likes fair play and people to play within the rules. He gets very, very upset eg if he's told off for an unknown misdemeanour or if he doesn't win at something and feels he should have done. He's not good with subjectivity. He's very, very competitive.
• So rewards and bribes work very well with him!
• DD was compliant and is by nature but has picked up on his questioning and challenge so is changing..... A time when I was nature would win out over nurture
• Find a passion that he can indulge. Sport is my DS's, he excels at it, he has spent the entire summer playing sport. He also reads about it, watches it, discusses it etc. It wasn't always so, he got into it about age 6, and has gone from not being the best of his friends at football in the playground to being scouted by 3 major sides etc.

....and thats the thing with intensity, mixed with a competitive spirit.

Once he has a passion for something, by God, he'll be the best at it!