PFB worry about DS having the MMR

[MainlyMaynie]

DS has the MMR coming up and I am worried about possible reactions. Not the stuff about autism etc., though I expect the publicity about that has subconsciously made me more concerned about MMR than other vaccines. A friend's baby ended up with a scarily high temperature though and that's the sort of thing that worries me (he's never had a high temp, so I don't know how he'll react). I have looked on the NHS website, but it doesn't explain how common reactions are. Do the majority of children get them?

I know this is PFB paranoia, I'm not considering not letting him have the vaccine, I just want someone to reassure me I am just being paranoid and that it will be fine!

You could argue that chickenpox has become more dangerous since the vaccine was introduced for children (in some places).
Because exposure to the CP virus protects adults from shingles (exposure reminds the immune system to make antibiodies).
So lack of wild CP has led to more cases of shingles has led to many more deaths than CP in children ever caused... until the shingles vaccine was introduced. But there are questions (valid, mainstream questions) about the shingles efficacy. IIRC, valid mainstream questions about shingles vaccine efficacy.

In a place like USA where medical care has an obvious price for most, many people think they shrug off the risk of shingles as not worth the cost of the jab so put themselves at risk.

I cringe about giving ammunition to anti-vaxers, but what Starlight said isn't completely far-fetched.

I'm not an anti-vac er lljkk!

Did you have any other examples for Boffinmum, Starlight?

Whooping Cough mutating!

Mumps and rubella immunity wearing off in late teens with the belief of immunity.

The lack of mild repeated exposure to diseases like measles meaning allowing the body to learn how to fight it and remind itself, causing more serious risks to those who haven't vaccinated.

OK, that makes sense, but it would seem to present a case for (largely) all or nothing vaccination in the general population as a public health measure, rather than selective vaccination depending on who can afford it/can be bothered to organise themselves. I suppose this is where the smallpox vaccination programme was a success. Perhaps we should do the same for TB now.

However I am not sure you can completely separate the apparent worsening of some conditions in certain populations from the natural mutations that viruses undergo.

A bit of me also wonders whether introducing more frequent and longer school holidays during the main flu period might have some beneficial effect at a population level. We need to consider the health effects of herding children in enclosed spaces at certain times of the year, methinks.

Starlight, this isn't a problem for the vaccinated, it's a problem of infant vaccination not being widespread enough. If rubella was completely wiped out by vaccinating all infants, then it would not matter whether the immunity wore off later in life as there wouldn't be any of it around (I refer back to smallpox).

FWIW I had had Fifth's Disease (aka Slapped Cheek) and was immune, but it still posed an unacceptable risk to DS2 (a degree of panic in maternity hospital when I had to go for tests and scan, and I was not allowed anywhere near any other pg people - they cleared the scanning unit before I went in - it was like being a plague carrier ).

The idea that exposure to these severe diseases makes you stronger, doesn't wash with me. I know so many cases where someone was left with physical damage (or had to worry about it) as a result of a VPD. And that physical damage made the person more susceptible to illness & infection. In other words, the VPD effectively shortened their lives or made the quality of their lives worse.

Examples, all individuals under 30:
asthma developed only after a bout of whooping cough (WC caused permanent lung damage).

deafness & chronic ear & sinus problems after meningitis (this in someone with an identical twin who never had same ear-sinus problems)

lung XRay required after pneumonia from HIb (in case of permanent lung damage). Pattern of repeat chest infections thereafter (no history before the pneumonia).

I used to recall 2 or 3 other examples off top of my head.

I suppose the point I was making is that many people who don't vaccinate, aren't 'selfishly' relying on others to do so to avoid their child getting the diseases, but are simply unafraid of the disease.

Not all diseases vaccinated against carry the same level of risks for an individual if contracted. Some 'may' confer benefits (I.e catching rubella as a child offers life-long immunity, as can catching chicken pox).

The fact that you can't chose the vaccinations to protect against those that could be a risk to your child and leave out the ones for diseases you'd prefer your child to catch, as they are shoved in together, makes people go against their judgement either way (I.e vaccinating for all, or 'risking' the scary diseases for the benefit of potentially contracting another).

My point only, was that people have complex reasons for not vaccinating and they aren't usually to do with game theory!

Yes I perfectly understand your point but I will come back to mine. When people make their decision whatever their reasons for vaccinating/not vaccinating they weigh up the risk of both the vaccine and the diseases.
Unfortunately you cannot pick and chose which illnesses you will contract, when you will contract them and how serious they will be. Some illnesses are mild in childhood but more serious in adulthood and vice versa. I don't think I particularly benefitted from having caught mumps, measles or rubella as a child. Ok I haven't had them again in adulthood but neither have any of the people I know who we're vaccinated. I had chickenpox as a child and have since developed shingles several times as a result. No benefit whatsoever.

Yes, I thought lljkk was wrong about that - once you've had the CP virus it lives in your nerve endings (it's in the herpes family of viruses) and that's what causes shingles in later life. It doesn't protect you - the reverse.

Yes the chickenpox virus lies dormant in the spinal cord and sometimes a trigger e.g stress or illness reactivates it again and the result is shingles.

" I had chickenpox as a child and have since developed shingles several times as a result. No benefit whatsoever."

There is a benefit to getting it as a child. Adults can die of chicken pox if they contract as an adult. I've seen it happen to previously young, healthy people.

Yes, shingles is horrible (far worse than childbirth in my opinion!) but it is much more difficult to die from it.

Yes, so can children. A classmate was in intensive care as it travelled via her spinal cord to her brain. I think complications can develop regardless of age if you are susceptible or have a weakened immune system. Currently Waiting for 4 month DS to develop spots - its doing the rounds here!

That's very sad but very rare in children, whereas adults (and this includes those without any complications or immune system problems) are are much more commonly very sick if they catch it.

As for your 4 month old, I'm afraid that babies under a year often don't develop immunity so he might get it again, even if he does get it this time. The younger you are though, the symptoms are generally less, so hope it isn't too bad if he does get it.