FF from birth

[Aworryingtrend]

Putting this here in the hope of getting a more balanced view than in the BreastFeeding/Bottle Feeding section.

I am planning to FF from birth. Please could someone advise:

1. how many 125ml bottles I will need

2. When to move on to the larger bottles

3. Whether I need a bottle warmer? If not how do you warm bottles- microwave or jug of hot water?

4. The actual risk of preparing bottles in advance. I know that DoH guidelines state that each bottle should be freshly prepared due to the risk of bacteria in the formula powder. However I am struggling to understand wht level of risk this is. Eg, one could argue that crossing the road whilst pushing newborn in a pram is a risk! I just want to know the perceived level of risk before deciding whether to prepare bottles in advance for night feeds.

Thanks for any help or advice you can provide.

I think we had 6 little bottles and 6 bigger ones, you could probably manage with less. My dd is 7 so at the time it was ok to make with boiled water then cool and keep in the fridge for a few hours, I don't know the guidelines now but I think they have changed.
Don't buy a bottle warmer, they are rubbish and take forever! Just stand the bottle in hot water to warm it.

I would get 8 bottles. I didn't bother with the small ones, waste of time. Just started with the big ones. I would sterilise and make up as per current guidelines. Store at back of fridge. Sterilise twice a day so no risk of bottles hanging around for more than 24 hours. Warm bottles in microwave but shake very well to prevent hot spots. Gradually get baby used to drinking milk straight from fridge though!

I had 4 little bottles and 6 big ones. IIRC, the small bottles hold 4oz, and it would depend on your baby how long you use them for. DS1 was having 8oz by the time he was 6 weeks (little gannet) but DS3 had 4oz until he was 8 weeks, maybe more.

You don't necessarily need the smaller bottles though as the bigger ones hold the same amounts, but start at a higher oz (think 2 rather than 1).

Moving on to bigger bottles, as already stated, depends on the baby. Take your baby's lead, once they start finishing the amount you've given them, increase by an oz and go from there.

Bottle warmers are crap, better of jug and hot water. Although think advice now is to make bottles up as you need themand cool them down, rather than make a days worth (as I did) and heat them up.

I wouldn't bother buying the small bottles, waste of money as they will need the large ones pretty soon eventually. Follow the instructions on the side of the formula pack as to how much milk to give.

I can't comment on the merits or not of preparing feeds in advance as I only used the small ready made cartons, opened a new one each feed and chucked away any leftover milk. Baby drank them at room temp so didn't need to worry about warming them. I realise this cost a fair bit more than the powder but I wanted convenience!!

I would also (and did) just buy big bottles because I had no idea you could get little ones You are supposed to make them on demand, and the advice around this is sketchy at best. I made all bottles up with water and left on the side to add formula as and when she needed, though I know now this is not the 'safe' way to do it.

I never bothered with small bottles either. I used the pre-made up glass bottles with teats for the first week.

I made up 3/4 bottles at a time. I made the bottles up per instructions, flash cooled them, then stored them at back of fridge until needed. I kept the bottle being used for around an hour then got rid of any remaining formula. All three of my children cluster fed at different times so that was the most practical way for me to do it. I also fed them on demand.

There is an NHS leaflet on preparing bottles, my midwife gave it to me but you can download it.

My bottle warmer was useless, it was lucky it didn't end up fecked through the window . I just used a jug, then later microwave

bottle warmers are pretty crap. They take a very long time...

As for the guidelines these were introduced after formula preparation was implicated in the death of something like 9 babies. Now out of all of the babies being formula fed that is a teeny tiny number so the risk of it being your baby is small but the consequences are HUGE if it's your baby. Is it really worth it?

Powdered baby milk is a high risk food, it is not sterile. The only way to control that risk is to heat it to above 70 degrees and use it as soon as possible which is why you are advised to make it fresh. It's a food hygiene thing. Really it's up to you to decide whether it's a risk you want to take.

As for bottles I wouldn't bother with the little ones but I would have a couple, washing and sterilising is a job of work. I found a cold water steriliser much more convenient than an electric or microwave one because I could dip in and out of it one bottle at a time and it only needs changing once a day.

The shops will still be open after you give birth, you can always buy more ;)

Have you thought about cartons? Expensive but good for peace of mind, and portable. You could mix, too: take cartons out with you and use powder at home.

I stopped warming bottles after a while and he got used to drinking it cold. Made it a lot easier in the middle of the night! :)

I would advise buying anti colic bottles, they reduce wind and are worth getting as they are the same price anyway. The Avent ones are particularly good. In terms of preparing formula in advance, I did because I had too - we put colief drops in her milk because she had colic and it needed 4 hours to work before we fed her. I made up the bottles and put them in the fridge, but did not make more than two at a time so that the bottles would be used as soon as possible. However, the best way in my opinion, is to get two of the powder dispensers so that you can measure out your milk in advance. Then, sterilise your bottles and put, say, 100ml of boiled water in each and allow to cool. When you need your bottle, boil the kettle, top up to 125ml with boiled water and then add your pre-measured milk powder. Check that the bottle is cool enough before giving it to your baby. I have found that this is the quickest way of giving fresh milk according to the guidelines, it takes about 1 minute and is great for the middle of the night. Remember, your bottles, once sterilised are only sterile for up to 24 hours (according to the steam steriliser instructions). Also, the water in the kettle should only have been boiled once. Good luck xx

My advice would be to buy a box of milk powder (aptamil is very good) and read the chart showing how much to feed. I agree with the other posters to only buy the bigger bottles.

I personally would be very very careful pre making bottles for at least the first month. We used cartons for the first month or so, its more expensive but its so easy and at least you know you are safe. After the first month or so, make up the bottles in advance,(using water over 70c) cool very quickly, (stand them in a bowl of cold water) and then put them in the fridge. Use ideally within 12 hours).

I would invest in a bottle warmer to take out and about, one of the flask ones with a pot over to put the boiling water in. At home just microwave it and shake really well, ensure not too hot of course. The tommee tippee ones are better than the thermos ones as thermos have a glass inner and ours smashed within a week.

I have just read another post that highlights the advice I gave as being incorrect. I was told by a HV that I could do this. However, I would advise now that you speak to your HV as some other mumsnetters have raised concerns x

Thanks all for your advice its very helpful. It is very confusing MamaBear isn't it- I have been told different things by different people who were all told different things by their HVs! I have printed that page on the NHS website thanks Wiggles.

Cut yourself a break from the worry and if you can use cartons for the first few weeks. Good advise re storing at back of the fridge. Also use the rapid cool button if you have one. Good luck. Enjoy your baby. Xxx

Re bottle warmers they take forever as others have said. You don't really need them for cartons anyway. First born didn't care about temp of milk when first moving to bottles. Second born liked it warm with a 2C window of acceptability .

So 9 babies have died worldwide and now we have this daft advice to add water at 70C to the milk and then leave to cool. Oh and we are supposed to feed on demand as well? At 3 in the morning you have to boil the kettle, wait for it to cool to 70C then add this to the milk powder and wait 30 mins for the milk in the bottle to cool. Meanwhile your baby is screaming with hunger.

I don't see any advice saying that we shouldn't take babies out in cars or for walks in prams but I imagine more than 9 baies have died worldwide through these activities. Seems like poorly considered advice to me!

But if you want to follow this advice, how about you mix the milk with a little water at 70C to kill off the beasties and then top up with cold water and give the bottle a good shake? Maybe there will be some HV science that says that isn't enough 70C water to kill off the beasties.

When we were out, we used to take a flask of boiled hot water and use this to warm up the cold boiled water in the bottle

don't buy small bottles , we got bottles i think from mothercare which you could sterilise in microwave put teat in led with about 15ml water and took 90 seconds they went from 25-250ml, you will need small teats then later larger holed teats, we had 6 bottles which did from 7 days ( when left hospital to 1.25 years)

(DD now 2.5) had tongue tie so was bottle feed expressed milk for 8 weeks then FF, I made up bottles with boiling water, and quick cooled at back of fridge, then reheated in microwave with good shake after, she did not like / would not take cold milk neither did she like cartons

Personally I did make up bottles for the night as othewise you could not feed on demand only 20 minutes after demand!!! my idea of a night feed is baby wakes baby gets milk change nappy baby and parent return to bed not baby wakes, cries for 20 minutes in arms of 1 parent while hopefully other parent makes milk from scratch curses and moans to wait for it to cool frustrated upset baby then takes ages to feed everyone wide awake takes ages to go back to sleep mmmmmmmmmm

Only you can decide what risks to take but you have to take some most people do not use buses everywhere even though a baby is safer on bus than in the best rear gacing car seat on market, they buy car seat and think risk acceptable for copvience and practicality

I always followed the advice to add the formula to water above 70 degrees, it wasn't a risk I wanted to take. I would always keep a jug filled with cooled boiled water, so whenever I needed to make up a bottle I would boil the kettle and add a small amount of boiled water and then a drop of cooled boiled water, this would mean the temp was roughly 70, I would then mix the formula and then top up with cooled boiled water. This also meant that there was never a need to heat or cool the bottle as the bottle would always be perfectly warm.

Just wanted to say, my tommee tippee bottle warmer works very well. I have one in the bedroom, take up either empty bottles & use cartons in the night or nowadays I take up bottles of boiled water & powder already measured out in pots. When dd wakes, I put the bottle in the warmer & by the time I've done a quick nappy change it's warmed up.

I used cartons too - much easier and more convenient. I'm not saying this is a good thing to do but I used to make up several bottles from one large carton and keep them in the fridge until needed - only ever in same 24 hours to be fair.

Also, used small cartons to start and my DD also preferred milk at room temperature.

Again don't bother with small bottles. I had no idea they existed but they would have been a waste of money for me as DC increased milk consumption pretty rapidly. We started out with 2 bottles but now we have 6 and that suits us.

I would suggest not bothering with a bottle warmer. My DC happily accepts milk at room temperature.

I use powder during the day and a carton at night. I don't make up more than one feed at a time. It's tricky to time making up a bottle in the first few weeks but I would suggest under estimating the time between bottles and have one standing by. The made milk can safely be kept for up to 2 hours, so if you anticipate a 2 hour gap between feeds but your DC actually goes for 3 hours it's no problem.

My best advice is to fill a thermos flask with 70 degree water. At least then if you do get caught out you don't have to wait half an hour for the boiled water to cool.

FF is a bit daunting because of the rules and the faff but you'll get the hang of it. At least you're planning ahead, I was going to BF so I had zero FF equipment or knowledge. I didn't produce any milk so we had to rush out and buy things after we left hospital (where DC had no feed for 24hrs but that's another subject). FF was a bit of a learning curve on an already steep learning curve but we're still here!

I have 6 big bottles 2 small they small ones are only good for the first while then for water/juice when they are eating solids.

I used my bottle warmer until about 3 months then moved on to the microwave tbh the bottle warmer takes 5 mins to heat by that time DS was screaming for it the microwave takes seconds but you have to be carefull of hot spots.

I've always made bottles in advance as long as they are made and stored correctly they should be fine. My HV told me the biggest risk is actually people not storing bottles correctly, not wanting to waste then and feeding after 24 hours (i chuck them after 24 hours) and thats it's easier to miscount when you make 6 at a time. So as long as your carefull it shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry to hijack but I have a question . Why can't powdered milk be kept in the fridge but the ready made cartons can be kept in the cupboard for months and be safe ?

I'm planning on using powered at home and cartons out and about . When I had DD (7 years ago) I made a days worth at a time and kept them in the fridge . Wish I could still do that .

You can get bottle covers which keep the milk warm for a while. I used to make up a bottle with fairly hot water when going to bed and put it in the cover - by the time DS wanted it in the middle of the night it was about the right temp.

alittle for the same reason UHT normal milk lasts for months in the cupboard, but normal milk or reconstituted powdered milk does not. Once the cartons are opened you treat like normal formula.

WHO guidelines: www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf

OBVIOUSLY ideally you'd make bottles fresh but in an ideal world your baby will feed to a strict schedule (and you'd be prepared to set your alarm for 30mins before a feed was due ) but in a far busier world, it's ok to prepare them in advance and store for up to 24hrs. With my 1st I pre prepared the water for a days feed but only did something like 5oz then stored them in the fridge. At feeding time I'd top up with boiling water so that it was at drinking temp then add the powder. This time around I've just made them in advance and stored in the fridge. I'm not sure which is best but this one is easiest. My friend uses ready made formula in a big carton, so you just pour out how much you need. Not sure who makes it, maybe Cow and Gate? Anyway it's cheaper than normal cartons!

Finally I have one of these www.amazon.co.uk/Tommee-Tippee-Closer-Nature-Travel/dp/B002L3TEN8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343501975&sr=8-1 for when I'm out and about but it would be good at home if you're reluctant to use a microwave as you could leave it full of boiling water to use when ready rather than faffing about with the kettle and a bowl when your rushing about for a feed!