do you do crafty type stuff with your pre-schooler? if so, how does it go?

[rhetorician]

or to put it differently, how can I make it work? dd is 3.6 and likes to do this kind of stuff, but won't be told ANYTHING at all, and just makes a big mess. She just will not take instruction, but then I wonder if I am just taking too much control and should just leave her to it; she wouldn't actually manage to make anything on her own though.

When will she get better at understanding that there are steps that have to be taken - or manage to wait for glue to dry etc?

It's not that I am forcing her to do this stuff over my dead body but that she initiates it and asks me to help

I do lots of craft with my 3yo ds, but give very little instruction. I think they need to just muck about really, it matters not one bit what they do, is all about enjoying the process.

What exactly does she ask you to help with?

I find do the same activity next to ds works well, he often copies/sparks off what I do. If he asks me to help I say things like 'where should I put the glue' or 'which colour should I use' as he needs to make the decisions himself.

IMO the point of craft at this age is a) develop confidence in making choices b) enjoy expression c) develop fine motor skills - the craft/art outcome is largely irrelevant.

What specific activities are you doing?

not very specific, really - she will decide that she wants to make a crocodile, but this will quickly turn into random messing with glue and sticking...I think my expectations are way too high! but maybe I will try the making something myself tack and get her to help. Thanks

Oh, yes I see - I think your expectations may be a bit high - I would say for a 3yo that random sticking is exactly what they should be doing!

If she says she wants to make a crocodile, you could just get an egg box and say 'this is like a croc's face, shall we paint it green' then leave her to wreck it develop the concept? While you sit back and have a cup of tea.

I like the sound of the 'sitting back and having a cup of tea'

For me that is the major motivation for craft sessions

I struggle with this too and so we never really do craft type things. I get all stressed out that it doesn't look like anything and that DS is doing it wrong even though I know, intellectually, he's 3.9 and he isn't doing it "wrong" at all, he's just learning and working it all out and I need to let him do it his own way.

I think I was very lucky, I was in a special art class at school, for people with no ability, we were encouraged to just express ourselves and I really enjoyed myself. The teacher used to be very encouraging on use of colour, materials, selection, whatever really. If I hadn't had him, I would have been like my sister, who will not put pencil to paper for fear what she draws doesn't look right.

Do you know what are brilliant? Those straws with little plastic things so you can stick them together.

Also - painting

And - cutting out and gluing

We do lots of baking, dd is 2y4m and ds is 4 and we have been doing this since dd was about 15/16 months.

They have to tell me when the number is right on the scales. They mix, they crack the eggs, they help spoon the mixture into cake cases and might put jam into the middle. Or we make biscuit dough and they go wild with cutters, the. We decorate the biscuits with water icing and sprinkles.

I have to overcome my perfectionist but I can normally knock up a Victoria sponge while their biscuits are cooking.

We don't do much sticking and stuff, but we will be doing handprints in a few months time for Christmas presents.

We do this stuff all the time (DD is 3.5) and we never get anything good as a result, other than some time together and making a big mess. I have to recite 'process not product' in my head throughout to get me through it.

Have you tried some of the cbeebies magazine crafty stuff though? Sometimes you can make something quite unrecognisable good with those.

I just give DD some PVA, some feathers, stickers, cut-out shapes and let her make as much mess as she wants. Ditto with paint - they all end up varying shades of murky brown, splattered on the paper.

I don't give any instruction really - DD just does her thing, it's about the process not the product. Which means we just get lots of sheets of paper covered in 'stuff'.

Ds1 wouldn't be told anything either so I just left him to it. It always ended up with him running his cars through whatever it was any way. But I got some peace and quiet!

Yes, he makes a total mess.

To minimise mess spreading to other areas (!) I sit with him and make something too.

He usually tells his father 'look what i did!' and claims my marvellous creations as his own.

We did some fab papier mache balls. Some with faces, some patterns.

They are still being played with even though they are battered. Google the recipe - all you need is shreds of newspaper, PVA, a ballon and perhaps something else!

I shove any potential craft stuff in a box. The amount of shite robots my 3 and 6 yr old have made astonishes me.

yes, we now have a 'making' box barely distinguishable from the recycling and she is keen; so process not product and I'll just let her at it...thanks all, very encouraging, actually

i think for preschoolers it's all about the process, and the sensory experience rather than the finished product. dd1 was ready for more structured stuff at about 4. dd2 is 20mo, and we have a lot of --mess- fun with glitter, tissue paper and glue. i also find that the less stuff i get out, (say, just feathers, shiny paper, buttons and glue) the more creative they are. on the occasions when we get more out they both become obsessed with using every single thing in front of them.

I agree with charlotte - less can be more. I sometimes just put out one colour and loads of things to paint with or just stickers or just pens and this is often better than everything at once. This applies to DSS (9) as well, he can get bamboozled if everything is out.

The single best activity ever is when I give a massive box and say they can decorate the inside with crayons and stickers - out of sight and safely occupied - bliss

the box idea sounds great, actually. I am keen not to discourage this impulse, plus her fine motor skills are coming on OK, but wouldn't suffer from some playful practice. SHe is inclined to be overwhelmed so limiting what I give to her is probably very wise indeed

try this book or any of her books really - gives an idea of art activities and tells you what the child is learning from them too :)

I went on a training course once (high scope) and they did a great thing where we were asked to decorate a paper plate. Then the instructors kept interrupting us to "do it this way", "now stick this here". It was a really great way of demonstrating how it's so frustrating to be made to do it a certain way and more fun and creative to do your own thing. Parallel play would be good, or just let her make a mess!!

Kveta I read the 'look inside' bit on Amazon and especially liked the phrase I see you've made your own shade of brown . It looks a good book.

yes, it does look good. Always happier if I can buy a book to solve whatever problem I am having that day...:)

I find the secret is I careful selection and preparation of materials.

Glue is designed by some mysoginst child hater IMO. For this age group I leverage the eternal popularity of stickers - vis:

• sticky foam shapes fom a
• a row of Sellotape cut into chunks provided along the edge of the table
• as above, but with an intersting 'something' conveniently stuck onto it (I've had happy times hunting the DS's initial letter in a magazine in all different fonts and sizes, which I then cut out at glued onto Sellotape tabs. )
• envelope address labels
• double sized sticky tape tabs preglued onto object/paper. they can then peek and stick the decoration (the only civilised way to engage with glitter!)

I can then sit back while DS independently creates 'something'. (I should stress - not all of these at one sitting!)

But you'll be both happier if you have verrry low expectations of how long they'll stay occupied & what they'll create.