I feel like my kids are in control of me - not the other way around!!

[Helenemjay]

My eldest wakes up at 6-7am every morning and quickly proceeds to chucking ALL his toys, small and large all over his room! he is 5 and a half, and i honestly expect this from his younger brother who is just turned 3 - they share a room and a majority of the time when i go in there it is ds2 that is sat there quietly watching tv and ds1 who is doing the usual chucking and making stupid noises, honestly i have tried everything! i have bribed and taken stars away and kept him from grandma's house - the meanest punishment of all for ds1, but the little sod starts again as soon as i walk off! ds2 spends his days 'telling' me what i should be doing and if he wants a drink, he wants it NOW! id like to think im not one of these mothers that thinks it ok for her child to express himself in whatever way he chooses so he can be rude! i think they all need to learn about respect from and early age and that asking nicely will get you more than demanding something now now now!! but despite all my good manners efforts both my boys - it seems, quite frankly, couldnt care less what i do or say, and proceed to cause hell and carnage! i shouldnt laugh but if i didnt id go bonkers! whats more confusing is my inlaws think im too damn soft and my mum and dad think im WAY to strict! lol, id love to know if anyones kids actually do as they should (not always obviously) or are you just constantly banging your head against a wall like me? i fear im beggining to loose any grip of authority in my house

Is it just in his room or all over the house? If just in his room, perhaps it doesn't matter - you don't have to spend the whole day in there! Do you have to fight this battle or can you let it go?

Hmm well usually i guess i would let it go, but we have a dd whi is only 5 months old sleeping in the next room and she is an ok sleeper but she quite often has me up at 4ish for a feed and so im not really happy for the whole house to be woken up at 6 by ds2's crashing and banging - i caught the little monkey this morning a 6.15 creeping down from his bed and trying to wake ds2 up, who until they started sharing a room about 5 months ago used to be a great sleeper - sometimes until 9.30!! ds2 NEEDS to sleep alot later than 6 otherwise he is a little grump ALL day! i strongly object to 4 people being woken up just because ds1 is up i got them a tv for there room so he can sit and watch cartoons if he cant sleep - he just uses it as a target! gggrrrr sorry maybe i am being a stubborn sod and should let it go, i cant tell!

With regard to the your eldest waking up, can you not get him to go downstairs and watch tv, thereby not waking everyone upstairs? I do this with my eldest who shares a room with dd. He comes in to me, I take him down get him a drink & snack (all prepared the night before) put the TV on in the playroom and then I go back to bed.
With the other thing, I ignore anything that isn't addressed to me in a polite way. I will make a drink "now" if I'm in the kitchen & it is convenient but if I'm not then it has to wait until I can do it. Whining, shouting etc won't make me do it any faster!!
I am always bleating on about this, but after having really serious problems with ds's behaviour, I have found that really clear boundaries do help.
So we have some very simple rules: no hitting, no shouting, no ball throwing or toy throwing in the house and no calling of nasty names. Both my children (6 & nearly 4) know these and know that transgressions will have consequences.
I think you probably need to get some basic things like this in place & then follow through a few times if your agreed rules are not adhered to and you may find things get more under control.

Just re-read & my post sounds a bit smug. It's not meant to, I had an awful time with ds and there are days when it still goes pear shaped but it is much better than it used to be because of steps I've taken to make it better.

Hi Helenemjay

A few ideas. Hope they help.

Ds1 has had a lot of changes in his life recently - ds2 moving into his bedroom, new baby sister arriving. Maybe he's trying to tell you something! That doesn't make his behaviour OK - you and his two siblings need their sleep. (My ds1 is quite a lively character with a very strong will of his own to say the least, but heaven help him if he wakes us up. When Mummy is tired, she is grumpy and that means noooo treats. At all.)

Perhaps you could offer rewards, and if he stays quiet until 6.30/6.45/7.00 then he gets a treat. Once he has hit the first target, you can extend the time. If he can't tell the time, use a timer socket attached to a lamp. You set the timer, and the lamp switches itself on,

(If he wakes early and can't sleep/entertain himself, could he come into your room, perhaps on a spare matress, if he snuggles down quietly/looks at books/does a puzzle? It would be a treat for him, only on the condition that he is quiet and lets the others sleep.)

When we went through a bad patch recently, and I felt that life was out of my control, I sat down with ds1 and I wrote out a list of houserules, that absolutely must be stuck to. I found it really useful being able to talk to ds1 as we did it. When we had ten, he then helped me to put them in order of the most important first. As we did it, I was able to congratulate him on being really good at some of them, but able to chat about the two or three that he really needed to work on. I came out feeling much more in control - and I have my piece of paper to refer to when things start to go wrong. (You can draw little stick men pictures to go with the words - or ds1 could do some pictures too)

Good luck.

PS But do praise him, praise him, praise him for anything that he does to be a helpful big brother. Explain to him that you are feeling tired with the new baby and need your sleep but that this phase won't last long, but that the job of a big brother is to help you as much as possible and to show the little ones how to behave. Then praise him furiously for anything he does that is good.

Yeah your all right, i shamefully admit im really really crappy at rewarding the good behavior im a right old stress head at the moment and spend alot of time moaning and carryng on at them - i seem to have lost the 'friendship' i had with them somewhere sadly ds1 and i clash alot i love him to bits but he really grates me, and i always find if i give him an inch he takes a thousand miles!! so im kinda battling with my own pig-headedness and my wanting to chill out and take control, will definatley try the sitting down and writing down rules thingy!

Yes, I forgot the bit about praise. Like the rest of us, when they feel good about themselves, they behave lots better!
You can do it HMJ - even though you are tired & frazzled!!! It will be worth it.

Thanks bugsy its tough this parenting sometimes!

Hi there

Just wanted to add - no critism intended! You are doing an amazing job with three little ones under 5! We ALL forget the praise thing when things get hasstled - just as we need it most! And it is horrible when you discover that the stress has taken away the fun. Parenting is far far harder than I ever imagined -and always worse with a sleep deprived head.

Do hope that things get easier for you soon.

Hi there

Just wanted to add - no critism intended! You are doing an amazing job with three little ones under 5! We ALL forget the praise thing when things get hasstled - just as we need it most! And it is horrible when you discover that the stress has taken away the fun. Parenting is far far harder than I ever imagined -and always worse with a sleep deprived head.

Do hope that things get easier for you soon.

and make him tidy up absolutley. i would stank thee with a cupof coffee - no i would bring in a chair make myself comfy and stay there until he tidies everything he threw about.

after doing this for a week, every evening before you get to do good stuff - something will dawn on him.

thing is you must must MUST be fairly emotionless about it - nonchelant - resignedly benign - not reet bovvered iykwim.

This may sound harsh but I always remind myself do i want this battle while they are young and I still have the illusion of control or when they are towering teenagers. You need to establish respect now and it can be done, as suggested, firmly, without yelling and calmly. As suggested, I would sit and make him clean up the entire mess everytime he made it (I like the coffee idea). Take the TV out of his room now. That is a priviledge not a right and he should understand that he cannot have priviledges until he lives up to his responsiblities which, for a five year old, is not to throw his toys around and make intentional messes that don't involve play ie messes to just make a mess. When my dd came home with bad grades ( and a bad attitude) I listed all the priviledges she lost and posted them in the kitchen. She started to earn them back over time and her marks went from up 2 grades in an amazingly short time. And the attitude improved. I said to her, you must feel proud of yourself, you said you would do better, you earned back the things you like to do and have, and your teacher is giving us postitive reports. She decided she liked the "good" attention from us rather than the bad.

Thanks girls for your suggestions! i too LOVE the coffee idea - im so glad you are all here to bounce ideas off, some days i really feel that although i have been doing this parenting thing for over 5 years now (not that long i know) - im just crap at it, i get so mad when they are being naughty and i shout and tell them off, and then i feel really guilty that im a terrible mother who does nothing but yells at her kids and then they do something similar and i get mad all over again, even though i have been a mummy for 5.5 years i cant help but still feel overwhelmed by the emotions of it all, i need someone who has done it all a million times to come and show me how to do it right and help where im gooing wrong

Would it be possible to (even temporarily) swap DS1 and DD's bedrooms so the the early riser has a room to himself and the other two get to sleep in peace. It won't stop him making a noise or being messy, but will stop him disturbing the others so much, maybe make it a " big brothers room"

Sorry, don't really have time to read the thred and catch whats happening, but may I reccomend a wonderful book called "The Good behaviour Book" by Sears and Sears. I got it from Amazon. Its really helped me re-think my own attitudes to discipline and punishment, what the purpose of discipline is, and has helped me avoid many power struggles with my strong willed DD.

Best of luck!