at what age can a child keep themselves safe?

[Menroca16]

Long story...will keep brief. A professional has stated that my DD has to be 'of an age where we can reasonably expect her to act autonomously, keeping herself safe'. This follows their findings that my exp, her father, is not capable of doing so.

So, given that she is now 5yrs old, exp reckons he will now be 'fine' with her. What age would you rely on your child to ensure their own safety. For the record, I think 5 years old is WAY too young. Thoughts, ideas and scenarios/examples will be HUGELY appreciated.
Thanks
(a desperately seeking safety mum)

Sorry, not enough information. For example, it is a scientific fact that children can't judge the speed of cars til about 7. My children could cook simple meals at about 8- most children can't. But I can't imagine any but the most simple circumstances where a 5 year old could keep themselves safe autonomously.

Again I do not know the background but would imagine that a child could only keep themselves same when they absolutely understand that the adult with them may not be able to and therefore would not by default rely on them to do so. That and the general age related things that the previous poster said.

Good grief. I'd like to believe no court in the land would expect a 5yo to be able to stay safe without adult supervision - and the report says this person is not able to function as an adult in terms of childcare).

I don't know where the stat about moving vehicles comes from but I've heard the same thing. Possibly a road safety campaigning group. Brake? I'd check the NSPCC for their guidance on leaving children home alone - which is effectively what leaving her with her father would be doing. There is no set legal age but clearly 5 is far too young and social services would be asking very serious questions.

Safe

I would like to believe the same.......however it is up to me to prove that 5yrs is not acceptable. I am told (by the judge) that we cannot "look to the past and things change" ....2 years after the findings that she "has to keep herself safe".
Nothing surprises me anymore! Its a crazy and terrifying and unjust situation. Child protection at its best!

I would imagine that ROSPA or the like may be able to help re judging of speeds.

Amazed by the judge. Have they not met any 5yo children?

Depends hugely on child rather than age. I have twin DDs (11) and I trust one of them completely to behave sensibly and not do anything silly if I'm not there. The other ..... well, diff story completely

These may help

20splentyforhaddenham.moonfruit.com/how-children-judge-speed/4556949080

20splentyforhaddenham.moonfruit.com/how-children-judge-speed/4556949080

www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/driving/speed/toptentips/20mph.aspx

Hang on- is the judge questioning the judgement that your child's father cannot assess risk, or is he saying that 5 is old enough to keep herself safe? What d to think about her fqther's ability to look after her?

judge hasnt ruled yet....but will not accept a report written 2 years ago without further evidence. There is none, he has been supervised since and so hasnt been able to put her 'at risk' which I think is the whole flippin point!!!!!! So, it looks like another assessment at another cost of £x,000 for me!
Social Services arent involved as they say that she is perfectly safe in my care and therefore low risk case. At one stage I begged them to be involved but guess theyre too busy with worse cases!

In that case as a minimum she would need to be the age when you would let her go out on her own, and as Iwillorderthefood has said understand that they should not defer to the adult regarding safety.
My personal opinion is that that would give you another 9-10 years before she would meet this target.

Father can in no way keep her safe, which is why he is now my exp. The things he did to her are spine chilling. Cant say much more on here for fear of being recognised.
I am left trying to compile as much research/evidence as possible to prove why she is far too young to be in his sole care. Hence the MN request for assistance

It sound like your ex should only have supervised contact in a contact centre.

A five year old is really a baby. They are small and pretty defenseless. A five year old wouldn't stand a chance in an abusive situation. However I five year old would have the sense not to stick dog shit in their mouth. Its impossible to say without knowing the potential risk your five year old faces.

I think you would need your child to be able read and write, be able to dial 999. They need to have the verbal skills to say if something doesn't feel right. Maybe would help to teach your child about protective behaviours

What Loony says- the age where they could actually be left alone would be an absolute minimum. I'd put that at around 11 or 12.

Though if we are talking time she spends with her dad, I'm not sure you shouldn't be holding out for an ever higher age, as it's going to be harder to go against her dad than to make a decision if she were alone.

My ds who is 12 had to deal with an emergency last week - older sister had a bad fall and he had to make the decision whether or not to ring an ambulance. He coped well with that and made the right decision on his own, but I am sure it would have been much harder for him if there had been an adult there telling him that he was overreacting. And he is at secondary school- not 5.

I think a contact centre will be the perfect outcome for her, I dont have any experience of them but at least I know that she will be safe whilst she is there and they are independent.

I am just extremely concerned. Common sense would mean that he would have to be supervised based on all of his actions and the professional view of him so far, but you hear of so many injustices!
I pray that I am not on here soon begging for emotional support if it all goes wrong IYKWIM

My ds1 is 8. He would be ok unsupervised for v short periods, couple of hours maybe, but only because he'd have his nose in a book and ignore anything else. I wouldn't let him cross a busy road alone yet, and he can't make hot drinks/snacks unsupervised. At 8. No way would I have considered him ready at 5!

But your situation sounds more than that - sounds like she'd be supervising her father, rather than the other way round, and that sounds all shades of wrong to me. Sadly I have no documentary evidence of why this should be so though..

At least 12 years old possibly 14. Depending on her maturity and awareness.
She would need to know basic safety measures re hot water knives electricity, dealing with medicines, Maybe basic first aid too, Stranger danger, road safety.

I would have thought she should have to be able to read to understand basic instructions.

I think that once they get to secondary they are deemed to be more able to l

Different people will have different views on this but 5 is much too young.

Given that children's brains are still developing into their 20s and that teenagers' brains are in a state of change which leads to them failing to understand and process risk in the way an adult would - well I reckon that your DD would need to be an adult (at least 16) before it is reasonable to expect her to keep herself safe without some degree of adult support.
I like this presentation on teenage brains esepcially this quote:
"A major part of adolescence is learning how to assess risk and consequences ? adolescents are not yet skilled at these tasks".
There is a reason why the state steps in to care for children until the age of 16.

Sorry stupid iphone.....
I think that once they get to secondary they are deemed to be more able to look after them selves hence the reduction in supervision in schools, able to travel longer distance more independently etc.
There is very little recognised childcare for this age group as there is little need for it as such. So I think under 12 has to be a definate no

I would use the point that the NSPCC say a child shouldn't be left on their own until X age (is it 14?) Obviously all children are different but this doesn't need to be pointed out.

Use the reasoning that since she would be responsible for her own safety when she's with her father then you'd need to treat the situation as a child being left on their own and since the NSPCC states X age, you feel that until she reaches that age, she needs to be supervised properly by someone other than her dad.

I have no idea of that would work but there's my suggestion.

Good Luck.

I think Didymus' suggestion is great: use the NSPCC recommendations to argue the case before the judge. They have a clear age set out and it comes from an independent and well known source.

(I don't actually rely on them for my personal parenting, but that is a different matter- I am not dealing with an unreliable ex, but only have to take my very reliable ds into consideration)

I would also use the NSPCC guide of 14.