washing nappies

[LeBFG]

I've searched about washing reusuables and I'm confused. Any help gratefully received!!

Nappy Lady says not to use Napisan, white vinegar or bicarb to soak or wash reusuables, particularly bamboo fabric. The nappy manufacturers think they are too harsh for the fabric etc. Is this correct? Posters here do seem to use white vinegar a lot and I was hoping to do this with mine to keep the eye-watering ammonia smell at bay (one reason why I'd stopped using my nappies for a long while). Stains are not a problem for me and I dry pail. It really is just the smell! How have your nappies held out against vinegar treatment, or any other cleaning method?

I think a lot depends on your washing machine. The smell is usually urine reacting with washing powder residue - the better your rinse cycle, the less need there is to strip out the build up.

I used to put my nappies on an extra rinse cycle and do a vinegar rinse once every month or two. Since I got a new washing machine with a nappy cycle, I've had no need to use nappisan or vinegar.

That's very good to know, nancerama, that makes sense. I've a sneaking suspicion that my cheap washing machine doesn't rinse washing very well...

If I use the vinegar as like you did perhaps the wear and tear on the nappies would be minimal? Thanks a lot!

This sounded familiar, so I typed it into google and found...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/nappies_potty_training_etc/a1312905-Cloth-nappies-smelling-like-ammonia

In case you need extra ideas. Nappies shouldn't smell after they have been washed, so there is definitely something amiss.

I have same issues, have been using the rinse ++ setting, but still not good!

Am going to strip wash then try using a few drops tea tree oil in wash.

To be clear: the nappies don't smell when I take them out of the machine. They dry in the sun. Some of them smell after a couple of hours on DS. His wee doesn't smell (the night disposable confirms this). I'm not sure if the nappies just need a good rinse or whether some other product is needed to get the ammonia out. I'll try what nancerama suggests.

The thread is interesting, gemma, just so many different suggestions! I guess this topic comes up regularly.

I've just lifted this off another forum, the poster had orginally lifted it from an old BBC website.

Ammonia can be caused in two ways:

1. Chemical formation because urine contains urea ((NH2)2CO). The body really wants to get rid of ammonia (NH4+), but ammonia is toxic, so it is converted to urea in the liver. Over time and with sufficient heat, urea will convert back to ammonia in your diapers;

and

1. Biological formation due to bacterial buildup in the diapers. Often older babies have more ammonia problems, probably because they have started solids and have more bacteria in their intestines and therefore in their feces.

You can do a few things to keep ammonia at bay.

1. Keep an open pail. Many of the reactions that turn urea back into ammonia are anaerobic (don't use oxygen), so keeping the lid off will keep a higher concentration of oxygen circulating around your diapers.

1. Wash frequently with vinegar in the pre-rinse. Ammonia is basic and vinegar is an acid. An acid plus a base makes a salt and water. Usually the salt is water soluble, which makes it easier to get rid of in your wash.

1. Keep your diaper pail somewhere cool. Reaction rates double for every 10 degrees celcius rise in temperature. Therefore, if your house goes from 20 degrees in the winter to 30 degrees in the summer, you will get ammonia problems twice as often in the summer.

1. Don't use baking soda unless you want to have to use more vinegar. Baking soda is a base, so you will need more vinegar to neutralize both the baking soda and the ammonia.

1. Use enough soap in the wash to actually get your diapers clean. Getting rid of the bacteria (soap doesn't usually kill bacteria, just interacts with their ability to adhere to the fabric), will keep your ammonia problems at bay.

1. After your cold prerinse/soak, wash in the hottest water you can to completely dissolve the ammonia salts that are present in the diapers.

Quite interesting. I think my nappies fit case 1, where urine and hence ammonia is not being washed out properly. So, for the moment, I'll try putting vingar into the rinse to see if this counteracts the basic ammonia.

Well done. Some of that made my head hurt! Waaaay too long since my last science class

Well I'm a spod!

Plain language summary: Either the pee doesn't get washed out of the nappy (turning into stinky ammonia) or there are bateria building up which are chugging out the ammonia.

Case 1. Washing out ammonia is priority. A rinse wash or soak before washing, or an extra rinse cycle at end. Adding vinegar to react with and eliminate the ammonia.

Case 2. Hot cycle, microwave blasting, drying out in sunshine.

I live in rural france where they used to use cinder from fires to wash white bed linen (!). Afterwards, they would lay the sheets directly on the grass so the ozone (which sinks) would help bleach the sheets in the sunshine. I'd never head of that before.

I would like to know if I could use vinegar with every wash? I live in a soft water area by the way. Does this damage the nappy tissue with extended use? Does anyone use nappisan or similar - and what was the longer term effect on the nappies? I paid an awful lot for my nappies and I want to be sure I'm not demaging them!

I've heard of "bleaching fields" in Scotland where linen was laid out to bleach in the sun. I never understood how it worked and now I know it is because the ozone sinks.

I use a small amount of vinegar in every wash to keep ammonia out of the nappies and to help keep the machine clean. I have two part nappy systems (motherease, tots bots and mothercare smart nappy). So far, I haven't noticed any damage to the nappies. I don't know about the long term use on the wraps though.

Napisan long term (I have experience) bleaches the nappies out, only an issue if they were non-white to begin with. It is expensive, though, I only use it on whites & to sterilise at low temps. I don't think it would do anything about ammonia smell. Air drying in garden my best tactic for smells.

Did anyone else suggest essential oils to deal with smelly bucket? I also found banana & orange peels seem to temper the smell, but need to make sure you don't wash them by accident.

I am not convinced by the always-use-vinegar advice, to be honest, the chemistry isn't that simple I reckon, but good luck whatever you do. If you think vinegar is good you could try Cola too, it smells nicer than vinegar & is nearly as acidic.

Thanks for the words of experience. So napisan is really just to make nappies look clean and white? If so, my nappies are white and don't stain because of the liners I use.

I've just tried out the two smelly nappies - the vinegar has definately cut down the smell, but after a few hours there is still a residual light wiff. I'm now washing them again with a vinegar rinse, plus 60 degree long wash with a dash of washing liquid.

Napisan also sterilises, it's a non-chlorine bleach.
Do you use bio powder? Some people insist it produces better results.
I don't have that sensitive a sense of smell, admittedly. The only thing that drives me crazy are diesel fumes.

cold rinse first

then wash (with tiny bit of powder)

otherwise the wee smell will just get 'cooked' in by the hot water

the cold rinse really works, honest

I very much like the idea of a cold rinse as it seems the cheapest and least hassle thing to do. I've washed them like that today - and shall run them through bebeBFG gaunlet tomorrow!

If you buy vinegar in bulk from cosco it is really cheap. I think we paid £2.50 for 3 litres. I use a small amount in each wash and one bottle lasts for months. I like the idea of the additional rinse as well though and will try that in the future.

I use those planet shaped eco washing balls, prewash with a tiny bit of oxyclean type stuff (if particularly pooey) in the drawer, there's no detergent build up and i don't even need to rinse every time because there's nothing to rinse out. I've been doing this for a year and never had the lingering stink and it doesn't impact on the nappies absorbency. Teatree and lavender oil in the nappy bin, but we keep it in the bathroom where all the smells belong so we don't notice

Do you dry pail Titty? You use oxyclean (which I have for standard non-nappy washes) and this is meant to be quite hard wearing on the nappy fabric. I take it you've not seen any degredation of tissue/elastic?

Update: the nappies washed with a cold rinse then 60 degree wash smelled just fine. Thanks everyone

I'm hoping to get away with cold rinse + 40 degree wash for most washes, and a vinegar + 60 once a week/fortnight.

For anyone else with cheap washing machines, I also think it's a good idea to do a half load. My nappies are bamboo and quite heavy when wet - they are probably quite difficult for my cheapo machine to rinse properly.

Last update: I've since used washing nuts with wonderful results. The bamboo tissue is plumper than when using ordinary washing powder. I wonder if even normal washing powder coats and flattens the fibres, even when using half doses?

Hi LeBFG, sounds like you've got it sorted, but just wanted to add my experience. Dd has recently potty trained, so no nappy washing for now (dc2 due soon though, so about to start again!). However, she used to wear Ittis & Bumgenius, & we struggled with smells for ages until I finally found a washing method that worked. I did a rinse first (on my machine this was 45 mins), as otherwise, you're basically washing your nappies in wee! Not actually sure if this is cold or warm in my machine. Then I did a normal 40 degree wash with half normal amount of non bio powder. I realised after a while that I'd read so much about detergent build up that for ages I wasn't actually using enough powder. Sorting this out seemed to solve the smells. I really think Napisan & other 'specialist' products are completely unnecessary. They can also ruin the waterproof properties of wraps/nappy outers.