Please help - starting to get to my wit's end over 8 yr old dd and her bedtime

[TheBolter]

I know I should write this in 'sleep' but having just browsed through the threads in there they seem mor focused on v young children and babies, whereas I need advice from people with older kids.

My dd is 8 and for over a year now dh and I have been having problems settling her down at night. It has got to the stage where she is rarely asleep before 9pm each night. We start bedtime at around 7.30 - 8pm, and aim to have ger in bed by 8. We will then let her read to herself for 15 mins or so then it's lights out.

Trouble is she's up and down the stairs after that - needing to 'tell us' something, or plain and simple whining that she can't sleep .

Invariably it ends up with us shouting at her - which isn't pleasant and something I try to avoid. I know that she would like one of us to go and lie inbed with her while she settles, and sometimes we ill do that, but as I am studying OU in the evenings and dh works long hours, it really eats into evening time and usually it isn't far off our own bedtime by the time she's asleep! (We go to bed quite early in our house!) I wonder whether at 8 yrs old she should be given a tougher line that bed time is bed time.

I also wonder though whether this is just the way she is - she wakes at seven each morning (was a v early riser when younger n a seven pm bedtime) and never seems tired unless she's had a VERY late night.

She's pretty bright and alert, I've always called her the 'Duracell Bunny' because she's always bouncing about. There's also a family history of crap sleepers so it might be hereditary - who knows...

All I do know is that by now I NEED to be studying/unwinding, and finding it pretty difficult with a sleepless 8 year old roaming about the house.

Please don't come on here and tell me that your children went to bed at six am and slept thirteen hours a night at this age.. I am v aware that there are children out there like this and that maybe mine should be getting more sleep . Constructive advice as to what strategy I should be taking here would however be much appreciated from people who have been there!

Excuse typos, as ever typing in a hurry. And thank you for getting this far...

If she sleeps 'til 7am then she's not doing too badly IMO. Could you negotiate reading til 8.30pm if she agrees not to come down ? Also I find DS needs to be physically shattered so we often do a walk or bike ride after tea.

My DD is just 8, we start bedtime routine earlier, 6.30/7pm, and still she is rarely asleep before 9 (she reads a lot before going to sleep), and we have to wake her at 7am. On a sunday she will sleep in until 8.30, so I believe that she could probably do with a bit more sleep too. Sorry, not much help!

DD is 7, we have had terrible problems, but now seem to have a solution. Like your DD she doesn't seem to need much sleep.

I put her bedtime back from 7 to 8 pm. She goes up at about 7.15 and reads until 8 pm when I go up and give her a lay down cuddle for 5 mins.

If she stays in bed and "rests" then fine, her lights out time is 8 pm tomorrow. If she messes about lights out will be at 7.30 pm, if she really messes then it's 7.15 pm and so on.

I did have to bring her bedtime forward a few times, but it's all settled now and we can usually begin our evening at 8.05 pm, which is great.

Good luck.

I think 9pm is ok for an 8-yr old. My twin boys who are 7 are rarely asleep before then. Sounds more like you need her to go to bed earlier, as opposed to her needing to go to sleep earlier. We put ours to bed 8-8:30ish and let them read in bed until 9pm if they're quiet. So if the main thing is to get her to be quiet in her room, present reading or whatever she enjoys doing quietly in the evening as a real privilege which she can have if she's quiet and "big" enough to get into bed when she feels tired.

I think the problem is not sleep but her coming down every few minutes.

Maybe let her have longer reading. After that lights out but she can have a torch and a notebook- if she 'needs' to tell you something then she can writs it in the notebook for tomorrow.

my DCs never ever went to bed before about 8 or 9pm. Ever.

they just didn't need 12 hours

I would just set her bedtime for 8:45 or 9 and let her stay downstairs with you until then

Wow - lots of great advice here, thank you everyone. It's really comforting to hear I'm not alone.

DD1 is, and always has been a 'high stress' type. Even as a baby she cried non stop from dawn till dusk for the first 12 weeks or so (doctor didn't think it was colic) the only thing that calmed her was being carried in a sling or being put to the breast... it was exhausting!

Sittingbull I think you've hit the nail on the head about the separation thing. She is particularly bad when one of us (usually dh!) is out. Last night dh was out until 11pm or so and she was still wide awake when he got home. He took her in the spare room with him and she was out light a light. I should have brought her in to bed with me earlier but I am reluctant to get into the pattern of that - although in extreme cases like last night I should have just given in. I put an audio CD on her CD player and told her to lie down, relax and let the words float over her. My heart sank as I heard her going to the loo as 'chapter 8' was announced! She's pretty high maintenance and always has been, I worry already about all the unsuitable boys she'll be with one day as she will probably ALWAYS want a boyfriend once she discovers the joy of a one to one partnership! Aaargh!

I will try that 5 mins technique again. Reminds me of cc in the early days but I will definitely give it a go! The difficulty will be in not engaging with her as whenever I do pop my head round the door she starts to want a conversation! Whenever I go to cuddle her she tries to drag me into be with her - it's like wrestling an octopus! But I will try that technique of just popping my head round the door then leaving.

Tanterose, thanks for the suggestion. Trouble is she has a younger dd who is just a year and a half younger than her and dd2 doesn't like to miss out on any action. She does however need more sleep therefore I can't let her stay up too. I will continue to put them to bed at 8 but let dd1 stay up a little longer then I will try sittingbull's suggestion.

sashh - I love the idea of the torch and the notebook. I will try that. She loves writing down her thoughts in books. Thank you.

isee, tread, dolly and 2to3 - thank you also for sharing your experiences and thoughts. As I said above it is v comforting to know I'm not alone. isee, I sometimes wonder whether dd1 becomes more wound up by late activities. Last night she had Brownies until 7.30 and was quite wired when she came home! But she does need lots of exercise, perhaps I'l try and early evening activity. Thanks. 2to3, I like your suggestion of letting her have 'her time' I will combine that with the above and work out a strategy based on bits of advice here.

You've all been wonderful.

like a light!

PS the unsuitable boys thing was a joke I hope

Sounds like my 8 yr old if I let her get away with it.

What we do is once she is in bed, she is only allowed to get up twice. That can be for a cuddle, a kiss, toilet (unless in middle of night, obv) & if she gets up more, we take something away (she likes to listen to music in bed, so that is the first to go, then the night light etc)

This works really well for us, we know she will get up, so we are prepared for it, and she knows we mean business if she gets up more than twice.

She sounds v similar to my DD1 who is 7. Up until she was about 5 she always went off to bed at 7pm and was a great sleeper, then suddenly everything changed. She couldn't go to sleep, never ever asleep before 9pm ish. She was up and down stairs like a jack in the box, 'just wanted to tell you this....', got a tummy ache....' 'can't sleep.....' 'had a bad dream....' etc etc etc also she would disturb DD2 and DS, running around upstairs, playing and jumping around until they were exhausted and inevitably there would be tears (and often shouting from DH and I). Eventually we simply stopped trying to put her to bed as she clearly wasn't tired and we completely changed the evening routine around.

I now take DD2 and DS upstairs at about 6.30 ish and during the quiet time when DD1 is on her own downstairs I expect her to do her reading / maths / piano practice while I put the other two to bed. Bed time routine is SO quick without DD1's disruption so the other two are usually tucked up and stories read bed by 7 or 7.15. DD2 (aged 5) is allowed to keep her light on until about 8pm so long as she is quiet as she likes to potter and look at books. I come down and spend maybe 15 mins going through homework or reading to DD1 and then that is it: 7.30pm and children time is over.

DD1 is allowed to stay downstairs provided she engages in a quiet activity that requires no assistance (usually she reads so we make regular library trips to stock up on books to keep her busy - not just novels but comic books too e.g. tintin, calvin & hobbes etc which she loves) although she might also potter around with non-messy craft stuff like making bead necklaces or sequin art or something. She knows that if she disturbs us (DH works from home in the evenings) she will be sent upstairs immediately - no ifs or buts, we are strict about it. At about 8.15 she goes up. She is now entirely capable of having a shower or a bath on her own. That was a bit of a leap of faith on our part recently (and initially involved much trashing of bathroom, water and towels on the floor and me sitting on the stairs listening to check she wasn't actually drowning). After a few weeks she got the hang of it and now we have no problems on that score so she just puts herself to bed and that is that, lights out at 9pm. She thrives on the extra responsibility, she enjoys quietly pottering around when the younger ones have gone to bed and there is now a lot less shouting in our house.

DD2 did protest a fair bit to start with about DD1 staying up, but she soon got used to it and the concession was allowing DD2 to keep her light on for a bit which made her happy.

DD (8yo) just doesn't seem to need much sleep. She is rarely asleep before 9pm and is up for school by 7.30am.

Even after a late night she doesn't really lie in much.

Maybe allow her to read until she is asleep - as long as she stays in her bed.

My DS8, he is always up around 6.... and he calls it his "play time". He sits quietly and plays. I also put him to bed at 8:00 and he doesn't fall asleep very easily. I had thought of letting him read until 8:30....

Doesn't matter when he goes to bed either...he is up at 6... period. Then grouchy all day!!!

Alot of good advice for myself here too!!

My dd3 is 7 and rarely asleep before 9, often 10... She's my third so I'm quite chilled out this time round, so long as she gets up in time for school. Like you, we put her to bed 7:30/ 8pm, then let her read. Post 9 (ish) we start insisting on lights out.

DD1 was the same when she was younger and this has cultivated an excellent reading habit so you could think of it as enrichment, and it hasn't interfered with her schooling. I think some kids need less sleep. Both my dd's have been a bit like this, whereas my ds has always dropped off straight away...

The most high achieving family I know has 3 dd's up till all hours. The eldest got 12 A*s at GCSE. Their mum said she just gave up and used the evening for instrument practice, homework etc.

Just make sure you get the break you need (that was the bottom line for me), so set down firm ground rules about what she's allowed to do e.g. reading in bed ONLY!! (or whatever works in your family)

Hope this helps and reassures.

Good luck

Does she like books? My 9yo settles down quite well when she has a book, maybe you could let her read until about 8:30 and she should fall asleep with her book.
And like a pp said, a reward system would also be good, for example if she goes to sleep without walking downstairs in the evening for a whole week treat her to something nice like a new book, magazine or give her money that she can save up for something special

Mine are teenagers now but we had a rule that once they went upstairs they weren't allowed back down. They could read or play after bath time but not come down. They would sit at the top of the stairs and call down if they really wanted something.

In the summer we would be outside gardening until 10pm so if they needed us they'd have to yell out of a window.

OP it does pass- but you need to make a routine that suits you and DH. DD will get used to it in a couple of weeks.

I'm new to the forum and dont have any great avice but can fully sympathise as we are going thru very similar right now in fact I have seen f ew threads on here with similar problems so I am beginning to wonder if it's age related? My DD is no problem once she's in bed, but oh boy getting her there is becoming an olympic event !! Very stressfull.
The other flashpoint seems to be getting her out to school in the morning, I wonder if many others are having the same problem at both ends of the day?
Abyway I hope things settle down for you very soon ( and that you tell me how you did it )

Interestingly enough, we were having this conversation with our son yesterday. He's now 18 and was dreadful when he was little.

He told us yesterday he kept thinking we were dead and had to keep coming down to check. Never told us at the time, just kept coming down, no matter whether we were firm, cross, nice or whatever.

So, make sure there's no underlying issues. I wish I'd known.

Reading these threads looking for an answer to my evening performance with my dd whose just shy of 8. She has been a great sleeper always going to bed at a reasonable time 7-7:30 and setting down after a story and a few kisses and cuddles, a positive dream. But 6 months ago that changed, now she wants to sleep with us, which is cozy and means we get no time together if you catch my drift. We've tried everything we can think of, bribery, scolding, extending her bed time, sleeping on a mattress on our bedroom floor, making her room light and pretty. But now it's come to the point that we put her in bed and she's up in 10 mins with tummy ache, head aches, scary thoughts, some one may kill her, you name it we have heard it. We have talked, cuddled, rationalised till we are exhausted till 3.00 and 4.00 in the morning. We are at our wit's end as she is now getting physical with us and screaming at us that we are horrid and awful parents. I just want my old daughter back. We've asked her if it's the house as we moved 12 months ago, she says no. I have now decided to keep her up with us till we go to bed, which is going to have to be earlier so my Dd gets her sleep. Is this just a padding phase I never had anything like this with her older siblings..