Thinking of doing a PhD - am I mad?

[mrsbugsywugsy]

I am in the second year of a part time Masters. I love the study itself, but struggle with juggling it with a full time job, and hate the fact that I sometimes feel I have no life outside of work and study. I had ruled out the idea of doing a PhD part-time because it would be another 7 years + of the same thing.

However now I've been told that there are some funded PhD studentships going in my department next year. My course leader, who is one of the supervisors, has encouraged me to apply. I think I could afford to live off the bursary plus a part time job for one or two days a week.

However, the big problem is that we are currently TTC. I am 33 and really don't want to put this off for three years. I have no idea what would happen if I got pregnant during the PhD (or before it started). Do you normally get maternity leave / pay on a PhD studentship? I don't know how to find out, except for asking the supervisor outright, and I would be worried that asking the question might make them less likely to offer me a place. Aternatively I could apply, then ask about it if and when I am offered a place. Although if they say no, then I would have spent a lot of time writing a proposal for nothing.

Also, the idea of three years studying my topic sounds brilliant, but I'm not really sure what it would lead to afterwards. My topic is in the Social Sciences and would involve research with community groups. As I understand it to build a career in academia you have to be prepared to move around the country, which I won't be able to do (due to owning a house here, DP's job being here, family around here etc). So I could end up with a useless qualification.

My current job is secure, the pay is not great but I can live off it, and I have good maternity benefits, pension, flexible hours etc. On the other hand it bores me to tears sometimes.

I am seriously tempted to do this, although part of me thinks I am mad to even consider it.I think in an ideal world I would wait a year and see how I feel but I'm not sure how often these opportunities come up.

Apologies for the long post, it has helped me just to get my thoughts in order if nothing else. Any replies would just be a bonus In summary guess my questions are:

1. is there any point doing a PhD in social research if you aren't going to pursue an academic career?
2. do you usually get maternity leave / pay on a PhD?
3. Should I ask the supervisor about it, or wait until I am offered a place?
4. Is the idea of doing a PhD while pregnant and with a small baby completely insane? Has anyone here done it and what was it like?
5. If I was pregnant by September, would they still let me start the course? Do you think there would be an option to defer for a year?

Bugsy, I can't answer the specifics of your question as it's 20 years since I did my PhD. What I can say is that it took utter selfish attention to my research,a wonderfully supportive boyfriend, then fiancé, then husband. And it took a certain level of madness.

I'm not in academia but in engineering and the benefits of the study have been in the discipline of data/information gathering, structured writing and argument, the usefulness of the subject matter in my field, the undoubted kudos in the workplace of being Dr Homebird, and the speed with which I am attended by motoring organisations when they clock the title.

Perhaps some of the point of a PhD is to add to current knowledge in your field, and to gain personal satisfaction from being a unique addition to your international peers.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for your reply Homebird.

I do have a wonderfully supportive DP, and wouldn't be able to do my Masters without his help.

Can I ask if you had children when you did yours? Do you think it would be possible with a small baby?

I've just applied to do a fully funded, full time PhD and I'm a lone parent of a one year old.

The Uni said I could apply for a childcare place which would be fully funded and I think there are tax credits available too.

I do want to be an academic, and they encourage students to teach alongside the PhD and will pay for teaching time too. However, in my industry a PhD is very useful even if not going into academia. I'm in the social sciences field and there is consultancy work, and employed posts which this PhD would suit, as there's a lot of practical/industry led work involved, as well as big thinking!

I guess it depends on how you could tailor the PhD and research to match your work and future career options.

I don't know about maternity leave and time off during PhDs, but would be interested to know, as I would like to have another baby in the future.

best of luck and hope someone else can answer the mat leave questions!

I think that you should apply. You can always take maternity leave or speak to your supervisor about your change of situation if you do become pregnant. You don't necessarily have to move around the country to do it-I wasn't sure what you meant by that? Having a PhD opens so many doors and I personally think that academia a good choice of career if you have small kids (in my experience colleagues with small kids have been able to be very flexible with leaving the office early to pick up kids, work from home, etc).

Hi, I am doing a full time fully funded phd and pregnant with DC3 (in my 2nd year). I have to request a leave of absence, but I think it would be difficult (and possibly discriminatory?) for any university to refuse if it was for maternity leave. I am sure funding bodies are not legally obliged to pay maternity pay but I think some do. If you look on their web site you should be able to see a copy of the relevant terms and conditions. I don't think they could stop you starting the phd just because you were pregnant (discriminatory) but I don't think they would be obliged to allow you to defer for a year - funding is so competitive, I think you are expected to snap it up!

My DCs are 7 and 5 and I juggle looking after them with 2 part time jobs and the phd, so it can be done, but it is hard - I often feel frustrated that I can't really focus on my phd to the extent I want. Having said that, my supervisor is happy, I think it is just my expectations that have suffered. I am really pleased I have done it though. I would like a job in academia, but in my field apparently the average is 90 applicants to each lecturing post, so its a bit doubtful!

Thanks for your replies - it's good to hear from those of you currently studying with DCs, and that it's not impossible.

Bornsicky I am really impressed that you are doing it as a lone parent, if you can do it then surely I can with a DP to help? I'm also interested in what kinds of jobs you can do with a social sciences PhD - do you know of any useful websites I can look at to find out?

The post is funded directly by the University and I can't find anything on their website about terms and conditions of funding, so I think the only way to find out will be to ask.

Henrysmama I might be wrong but I got the impression that to pursue a career in academia you had to be prepared to move around the country, to go where the jobs are, at least at the start of your career. I think like Daisy says it is because it is so competitive, so I am unlikely to get a job if I limit myself to the local University.

Daisy if you can't get maternity pay from the funding body, do you know if you'd be eligible for statutory maternity pay from the government? Apologies but I'm not very clued up generally about maternity benefits. My DP is working but we would struggle to survive for long on just his salary.

Anyway, I have decided to give my course leader a call tomorrow and will ask him some of these questions too (the career related ones).

mrsbugsywugsy not sure on websites as such, but there are a few industry specific magazines/journals in my area and local government is another area that I can (and have) worked in.

I've also done consultancy work in house and as a freelancer, so that may be an option depending on your subject area.

I have a few friends who have done PhDs at my uni and all of them are now staff at the same uni. When I asked about academic career paths for this PhD, I was told that I would need to be prepared to teach as part of my PhD and that there were paid and unpaid teaching opportunities, depending on my experience and availability.

I am just coming to the end of a PhD. I was pregnant with DS1 when I got my funding and had a year off in the middle to have DD2. I am 60% WTE and have done 4y 3m of actual study.
There are lots of good and bad things about doing research with small children. I am a scientist, so in a lab, which makes me less flexible (I'd guess, though I don't know). However, I have an understanding supervisor, so, unlike in a "proper" job, I was able to rearrange my time to see DS1 through the start of school, turn up to school plays, take time off at short notice to deal with sick DC etc. I also have an understanding funding body, who deferred my start and have paid me mat pay, and allowed me to be part time.
On the down side, I have never felt like I give enough time to the PhD, as you can't live the research with DC, it is "just a job". There is also baby brain, which seriously derailed my 2nd year... And chronic sleeplessness.
But if you really want to do a PhD, go for it.

Hi Bugsy, no I didn't have any children when I did my PhD but on reflection I think that just gave me the opportunity to be single minded about it. I don't suppose it would be that different to having a research role not associated with a PhD. Uni's are pretty flexible and if you can make the money work, and in other circumstances you would work with a small baby, then I think you might look back and wonder what kept you if you didn't try for it.

Hi Bugsy, I'm currently of the opinion that anyone wanting to do a PhD is a little bit bonkers, but that may just be the stress of my latest deadline talking

1. is there any point doing a PhD in social research if you aren't going to pursue an academic career?

I don't really know enough about this area to say. You may not have to move around the country, how many universities are there that are commutable from where you currently live?

2. do you usually get maternity leave / pay on a PhD?

It depends on the conditions of your funding. The local body that funds the majority of PhDs in my university have a maternity provision of a full 6 months funding for the one baby. I don't get this funding but as they had previously provided another student who was also not funded by this body with this maternity provision I was given paid maternity leave.

However, I'm now pregnant with my second and although there will be no issue with me taking the leave I won't get any money.

As you don't pay tax or national insurance on the stipend there is no automatic entitlement to SMP or maternity allowance. Although if you are earning extra money through teaching/ marking/ invigilating etc. and depending on the amount of time elapsed from your previous job you may still fit some of the criteria for maternity allowance. You can check this out here

www.direct.gov.uk/en/moneytaxandbenefits/benefitstaxcreditsandothersupport/expectingorbringingupchildren/dg_10018869

3. Should I ask the supervisor about it, or wait until I am offered a place?

Not sure if you are asking whether you should ask about maternity leave or ask about the application in general.

I would ask about the application in general, but try and find out about maternity provision of the funding via a websearch. The local body funding contract is available on our university website and other funding bodies may also post their full terms.

As others have said though there should be no problem with you taking a temporary withdrawal for maternity leave.

4. Is the idea of doing a PhD while pregnant and with a small baby completely insane? Has anyone here done it and what was it like?

Yes it's insane, but at the same time it also makes perfect sense for me as I'm quite old and am really glad that I'll have baby making out of the way by the time I finish and need to get a proper job.

The hardest bit in my first pregnancy was the tiredness in the first few months, the hardest part this time has been the tiredness in the first few months and having a baby who wasn't sleeping very well. I really wish I had been able to get a few months work done before being pregnant again.

I also find that pregnancy really affects my ability to concentrate.

The hardest thing about having a baby is having to fit my working schedule around his schedule. I used to come in to the office mid-morning and work till about 8, I now come in very early and have to leave at about 4.45, which always feels like the time when I'm just hitting my stride. I'm also too shattered to work late into the night to meet deadlines, but I think that is a lot to do with pregnancy rather than the DS.

5. If I was pregnant by September, would they still let me start the course? Do you think there would be an option to defer for a year?

I don't think they could stop you, they wouldn't be able to stop a man about to have a child from starting. Whether or not you think it would be wise to defer would depend on how pregnant you were.

HTH

Good luck with the application.

Thanks for all of your help. Furry your long post is really helpful, thanks.

There are two Universities which are easily commutable from where I live.

I just phoned my current supervisor and he was really encouraging, said that if I applied he would support my application. He was really sweet and I burst into tears after I put the phone down .

The PhD is funded directly by the University, and there isn't any information about maternity leave on their website. I'm starting to think I will just go for it and ask the question if I am offered a place.

The problem now is that I only have two weeks to put together a research proposal. I have a vague idea of what I would like to do, but I think I need to have a really solid proposal with research methods for the application. Eek!

mrsb if you approach a potential supervisor at each of the unis you have in mind, they will probably comment on your draft proposal - that is really useful. Also bear in mind you don't have to actually go into uni much when doing a phd so they don't necessarily need to be very commutable - mine is 3 hours away but I only go once or twice a term and speak to my supervisor by phone the rest of the time. Of course, if you want to teach, that could make it more awkward (but I did that for a semester, just made sure I taught all 5 groups on the same day so only one long day a week).

Are you sure it is not your university channelling the funding from elsewhere as that is usually what happens? If it is from university funds, I suspect it is a lot less likely you will get any discretionary maternity pay from them, but furry makes a good point re maternity allowance. Also, if you could keep working part time you could perhaps get some maternity pay from that.

Good luck with your proposal.

1. In general PhDs are only useful for academic careers unless you are doing something very applied and industry specific which doesn't sound like it. Academic careers are extremely tough at the moment, people are being made redundant right, left and centre. Think very carefully if an academic career is what you want and whether it is worth dropping an existing job for. You would most certainly need to be flexible and work a number of 9 month contracts before having any chance of getting a permanent post and that is after getting a PhD which should combine teaching experience with publications.

1. It depends on the conditions of the grant. The PG office should have their official policy on this, should be available in their documentation. Most Unis have this online but they should at least have a hard copy outlining leave of absence, maternity leave, etc. If the money comes from an external body, e.g. ESRC, look on their website.

1. No harm in asking but I doubt he/she will know. No supervisor would discriminate against you for wanting TTC. Aside from it being illegal it would make little difference to them if you were TTC or not - a good PG student is a good PG student regardless.

Sorry DD crying, will try to come back for 4 and 5!!

Sorry about that!

1. It entirely depends on the pregnancy and on the baby. I signed a book contract (for an academic book) a month before I got pregnant. I managed to do it but 6 months late and it was quite tough at time. I worked a bit in the first trimester, couldn't do anything the second and third (too tired, too sleepy, too nauseous!). Then it picked up when DD was born because she bfed all the time so I would pop her on a pillow on my lap to bf while I typed away. However that only worked till about 6 months, after that she got too active during the day, no longer naps and doesn't sleep well at night so again I am too shattered to do any more work.

1. It has nothing to do with them. You can defer or you can start the course and take a year out later on.

Thanks Daisy. There's just one Uni I'm thinking of applying to, and it's where I currently study p/t. I spoke to my current course leader, who is one of the supervisors for the PhD, and he has said he would comment on a proposal before I submitted it. Trouble is, the deadline is in two weeks (and I have another deadline in those two weeks too). So I have to get thinking quickly.

He mentioned that the main supervisor specialises in working with children and that it would be a good idea if the proposal involved work with children or young people. The trouble is, I only have experience of working with adults and that is where my interest lies. What do you all think? Is it better to go with the topic I want, even if I have less of a chance of being accepted? For one thing, if I have to write a proposal in a rush, I won't have much time to do any reading about how my topic relates to young people.

Booboo thanks for your comments. I think the way you got cut off last night and finished your post this morning is an omen of what studying with children might be like .

I am quite worried about giving up my nice safe job, but have a feeling it would be something I would really regret if I didn't do it.

There may have been a development on the TTC front - had a very faint pink line on a stick this morning. If I am preg then it will be pretty obvious by September

Very exciting! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

On the topic/supervisor point: you need a topic you are really, really interested in, because no matter what it is you will to totally fed up with it before the degree is done! A PhD (at least in the humanities/social sciences) is a test of strength of will and perseverance! Don't compromise on the topic to do something someone else is interested in unless you think you can expand your interests in that direction. The second thing to consider is the suitability of the supervisor - not just whether you have similar interests but whether you click as people. You will need to work very closely with your supervisor so you need to make sure he/she is someone you can work with.

I agree with Boo it certainly needs to be a topic you are really interested in. However, I had to tweak my proposal to one angle to get funding, but have since completely ignored that part of it. It might depend how flexible the lead supervisor is.

I would consider applying to more than one place - I applied to 3 and the one I thought I stood the best chance with (lots of positive feedback from 2 potential supervisors) I didn't even get a non-funded place, whereas got offered a place straightaway at an equally good uni with the same proposal (never got round to applying for funding at that one as third had come through).

I'd say grab your opportunities in life when you can. If you happen to get pregnant there will be a way around it. There are solutions to everything - you just have to find them :)

thanks everyone for your advice.

Boo I have never met the supervisor but the second supervisor, my current course leader, is lovely. I don't really know how supervision arrangements work; my interests are closer to his than to the main supervisor's, so maybe I would be working more closely with him?

Daisy that's interesting, I hadn't really considered doing a phD until this opportunity came up and I was encouraged to go for it. There is only one other uni which I could commute to, so maybe i should check out whether they have any similar opportunities.

Thanks for the encouragement Migsy

In other news, there was another, slightly less faint pink line this morning, so if it all works out I will be taking maternity sooner rather than later...

Good luck MrsBW, with all you do and all who come to live with you!

I know this is quite a late addition to your thread, but I just wanted to share my experience. I am coming to the end of my first year as a research council funded student (in social sciences) and am expecting a baby in December. I was terrified about telling my supervisors, as I thought they would think I wasn't dedicated etc, but their response was completely the opposite. One pointed out that having a baby while doing a PhD is the perfect time. firstly (and this depends on research council), I am entitled to six months maternity leave on full bursary, with the option of upto 6 further months with no payment. Moreover, being in the social sciences, I don't need to be on campus at particular times very often, so can be flexible around child are etc. moreover, most early career research jobs are now fixed term contract, making it very difficult to have a baby in the years after completing a PhD.

Don't get me wrong, I know this isn't going to be a walk in the park but from the perspective f the points I've just made, I don't think it's complete madness x

Thanks Equimum. I am still watching this thread as it is still relevant to me. I decided to apply for the PhD and have an interview for it next week (eek), but I am also definitely pregnant - 10 weeks tomorrow! So I am still unsure what I would do if I am offered the place.

I am thinking I could ask to defer for a year, then go off on maternity leave from work in December and not go back. Then I would still be able to get SMP (I think). I'd then start the PhD in September/October when the baby would be 9 months old.

Could I ask if those of you who have done this continued to study full time or did you go part time? As I think we could survive financially if I received the full bursary but not with only half of it.