Father needs advice - sharing the care load overnight

[hungrybabyhungrydad]

Hi all,

My partner and I have a lovely little 9 month old daughter. She's learning fast and a real handful, and needs continuous attention an stimulation to keep her occupied.

My partner is on her final months of 12 months maternity leave. I work in a business environment but am fortunate enough to be able to work from home 2-3 days a week, albeit working longer hours when at home. On top of this I have to study for professional exams that take place every 6 months.

My partner had a very very tough birth with intervention, where anaesthetics were not applied correctly. It is still fresh on her mind and means she doesn't sleep well. I'm proud that she breast feeds the little one, and she's an all round super mum. My partner always puts the baby first (except in my issue below), having cut soya, dairy and bread etc. out of her diet so she could continue breast feeding the baby after she was diagnosed as dairy intolerant.

The problem I have is with sleep. Even since before the baby, my other half has always been a long sleeper. Since the baby was born I've been almost permanently the one to be up when the baby wakes between 4 and 6 in the morning, while also waking every time the baby does (between 3 to 6 times per night). I give her breakfast and play with her before work whether I'm at home or in the office, then put her down for her nap at 8am.

I work in a pressured environment all day, and in the evenings either go to the gym or come straight home, and do my allocated chores (hoover and mop, tidying etc.). Generally, as soon as I get home the baby is my responsibility.

I fully appreciate that caring for a baby is a full time job, but it feels like my other half doesn't appreciate that I have a full time job too, along with caring for the baby when she wakes at night and early in the morning. I have 3 final exams next week, and haven't had much more than 4-5 hours sleep per night for the last 9 months.

I ask her to maybe do the early morning shift or wake up at night until my exams are done, but she ignores me because she knows I'm a softie and will get up to tend to me daughter if she's crying. I'm constantly conflicted as I know she's having trouble sleeping and want her to rest, but am pushed to the limit myself.

Long post and If you've made it this far, thanks. Am I being unreasonable? If you want any more info then please ask.

From what you've said, it doesn't sound as though you're being unreasonable. Though you say your partner is breastfeeding yet you get up in the night? How does that work?? I think with final exams next week you'd be entitled to ask for full nights of sleep. Presumably if you fail them it will negatively affect your job and work prospects so it fair that you should be able to put the hours in.

I would also say that she should get up in the night since she gets to sleep in during the day whearas you don't have that option. Personally I don't hand over baby care to my husband as soon as he walks through the door. We still share it.
However I'd say it sounds like there's more going on here. Perhaps your wife is affected by the birth, and that's why she's asking for more support than might 'appear' reasonable. If she's still upset about it 9 months on I'd say she needs to talk to someone about it, maybe get some counselling, particularly if she can't sleep well because of it.

Thanks Octavia,

When the baby was sleeping in our room (in her cot) I'd get up to bring her to the bed, and then put her back into the cot once the feed was done.

She's now in her own room and we're trying to cut to a maximum of just one breastfeed per night, so when she wakes up I get up to initially comfort her and try put her back to sleep, and if she's really distressed then my partner wakes and feeds her.

You're right about the job - for the last two days I've been coming to my parents house to study during the day as it's empty, but I'm so exhausted that reading a textbook is yielding little to no learning results.

Thanks for the reply Lucinda,

She's currently getting support through the NHS but is on waiting list. We've had numerous post-birth reviews with various doctors and nurses and all are very supportive, and the hospital has essentially accepted responsibility that they made a massive mistake. Despite all this she's super active, hasn't locked herself away, is always taking our daughter to various groups and events etc. so she really is super mum.

In the evenings interestingly the balance has shifted over the last month or so - for the first 6-7 months it was purely my job in the evenings, now it's more shared. In all fairness to her she does always cook us all a lovely dinner while In the evenings while I care for our baby.

When I think about it I feel guilty for complaining : - (

I agree with lucinda that if your partner's still traumatised nine months on then she may well benefit from talking to someone about it. Then you might find that the load was able to be shared a little more evenly. Every household is different, of course, but I don't know of many where the going-to-the-office parent does the night shifts. When I was on mat leave I did all the nights.

Do you have family support nearby? They might say no, but if you could ask your parents or siblings to sleep over and help once a week, at least until you finish your exams, that could help. If you would be OK with your baby going to your family member's house, that would be even better for your sleep but from your post it might be that would be a bit soon if your baby is really attached to bf.

Hi LCarbury,

We're fortunate to have both sides of family nearby - and all of them itching to get their hands on the little one. On the weekends I typically take our daughter to my parents house for half a day on both days, this gives my partner some time to herself, my daughter time with her grandparents and me some time to kick back for a while.

Baby is fantastic and independent - I'm sure she'll be fine with her granny and granddad. That's a great idea and I'll raise it with my parents to see if they can help out one day.

I agree that your wife sounds like she needs help. After nine months she should not still be suffering sleep deprivation or other anxieties related to the birth of your child. Talk to your HV or your GP as a first point of contact and get the ball rolling for her to get some counselling.

The level of support you're providing is fabulous - good for you. I do, however, feel that your wife is not pulling her weight. My DH works long hours and I'm a SAHM and I've never, once asked him to do a night duty with either of our DC. He works and therefore he gets to sleep at night - that's our deal anyway. But it's not reasonable that she gets a lie-in every morning and hands the baby off to you the second you walk in the door. That means you're on duty 24/7 and she only has to cover the hours you're out of the house. You're right to feel that things are out of balance.

In addition, while you're speaking to the HV about your wife, I would get some advice on night-weaning your DD. Unless she NEEDS to feed at night due to low weight or other health issues (which you don't mention, so I'm assuming she's 100% healthy), she doesn't need to feed at night and you should aim to get her sleeping through the night at this point. If you don't encourage good sleep habits now you'll find this night waking is much harder to deal with and eliminate as time goes on. She should also not be awake from 4-6am each day - again this is something you should tackle now. It is possible (and certainly desirable), to get your child sleeping from 7-6 or thereabouts every night and 9 months old is a good time to do it.

I disagree with juneau on a couple of things - it's perfectly normal for 9 month olds to still need to eat at night. Both mine were still having proper night feeds at this age as are many others as you'll see from the number of threads about it - DD until 10m and DS until 11m. You'll probably find that when she doesn't need it any more feeds will suddenly get much shorter and then you can set about cutting them out altogether. I wouldn't try to achieve this before your exams, though

Also there's no 'should' about when a baby wakes up in the morning - most babies and toddlers are early risers. 5.30 is average but sometimes it's earlier. Once she's sleeping through then you can see how late she goes as part of her natural rhythm.

However, I think the issue at this point is not what you're doing with the baby, it's how to balance things a little more evenly with your partner.

Hi Juneau,

Thanks for your thoughts. Just to clarify - she wakes at any point between 4 and 6, not specifically FROM 4 to 6. So this morning she woke up at 5, was awake till 7:30 ish and then went down for a nap.

Re the counselling - she's seeking help and in the NHS process, waiting on further appointments.

Also to clarify, my partner does spend 1-2 hours sorting the house out every evening to prepare it for the next day, as I'll try and get to bed by 21:00 knowing I'll be up to tend to the baby, but she'll be busy till 22:00ish tidying and cleaning.

I want to paint an accurate as possible picture so would be wrong to claim she just sits and does nothing - she's very active and following cooking dinner at 6ish, will watch TV for an hour or so followed by chores. Recently I've been worn-out and getting very lazy myself, so haven't been hoovering and mopping with as much excitement as I once was!

You're spot on with night-weaning, funnily enough this is exactly what our argument last night was about (my fault). It was the 2nd time the baby had woken and she was particularly distressed, so I asked my partner to breast feed her. My partner said we need to try and get her to not feed at night, and I offered her a drink of water instead. I insisted on my partner to try a breast-feed to calm the baby down, but she said I needed to persist and try and settle her without a feed.

Her advice was correct, but at that point, being tired and cranky I snapped and went and slept on the sofa, which is why today I've posted here - because I just couldn't cope with it last night.

Overall my other half is very knowledgeable and goes out of her way to the best mum she can - the reduction in night feeds was her plan.

Her friends and both our families consider her a model mum which I agree she is, but with the pointers I've gotten from here I'm sure we can work around the problem and come to a happy solution

Octavia - I agree, want this to stay on track with the balance issue as opposed to anything else. Thanks for everyone posts so far.

Hungry, - I'm a bit concerned by her doing all that, plus the sleeping, plus being considered a model mum.

I don't do 2 hours of tidying the house in the evening. I probably don't even do that over a week. I make half the meals.

The strive for perfection and the need for so much sleep are red flags for PND.

I think you both have to become a hell of a lot more lazy tbh, and for now, whilst you're in 'survival phase' have the baby sleep with the mum, whilst you either sleep with them or elsewhere.

I haven't hoovered my house in a week, mopped in two. Friends still come round, Children still get fed. I am answerable to no-one nor do I give a tick whether others think I am a good mum or not. They still seem to engage with me.

I think you are BOTH trying to do far too much too soon. If you need a showhome get a cleaner.

Yeah, my floors get washed every six months if they're lucky. The rest of the time it's a vacuum once a week over the whole house and that's that, barring the washing up, laundry etc.

Agreed that the excessive cleaning is a bit weird - she really spends two hours cleaning the house every evening??? My house is lucky to get that kind of attention in a week! Has she been assessed for PND?

And re: the sleeping thing. You'll find people on here who've co-slept and BF until their children are two, three or older. It depends what kind of a parent you want to be and what kind of a sleeper you want your DD to be. Only you and your DW can decide that. But the vast majority of babies can go through the night at 9 months old without needing to feed. They may LIKE to feed and they may well be in the HABIT of feeding, but they don't biologically NEED to. So if you want to start night weaning and there are no good reasons not to, this is a good time to do it.

So your wife cooks dinner every night at six (an enjoyable activity), then watches TV for an hour then does chores til 10. And doesn't help put the baby to bed, or wake up in the night, or get up with her in the morning. And she gets a half day to herself on both Saturday and Sunday.

I agree, this doesn't seem balanced. My DH works full-time with occasional night work and I have never asked him to get up with my baby. In fact I often sleep in another room with her so as not to disturb him.

However, I disagree that 'After nine months she should not still be suffering sleep deprivation or other anxieties related to the birth of your child.' Post-natal anxiety can last for much longer than 9 months, and she may benefit from CBT to address this.

Could you also consider a cleaner, so she doesn't feel the need to do so many chores? Have to be honest, it sounds like a way of avoiding the childcare. Chores aren't that important at 10pm.

Ok - good points. So we should take it easier on that side. In all fairness it's just the essentials - getting the dishes done, baby clothes washed (reusable nappies etc.), cleaning up after the little one as she eats like a wild boar and makes mess wherever she goes. It's mostly just day-to-day stuff that HAS to be done. And our house is far from a show-home!

But point taken, I'll raise that too.

On the point about sleeping over at grandparents, I can recommend this from experience. My baby has slept at my parents' house with no problem, several times since 10 months old (and I am still bf at 2). Once a week would mean she would be even more at ease with it and might just give you both the break you need. Anxiety is exhausting, however much support you have, and 9 months is still very young, but you have needs too, and sleep appears to definitely be one of them!

Get more nappies so they don't have to be done every day. Leave the food on the floor/table overnight. A couple of times a week do the dishes when you run out of them etc.

Once a week eat takeaways directly out of their containers.

Really.

Also, arrange some quality time for your DW to spend with the baby. Doing something WITH her, not shipping her from playgroup to playgroup for someone else to entertain her.

It sounds like she is going through all the motions of what she has decided will make her a good mother based on some kind of magazine image, but is really missing out on actually enjoying and having fun with her child.

The fun comes at bath time, at nappy change time etc.

Oh you poor things, it is friggin' hard isn't it!?

You're not being unreasonable, but neither is your partner. I think you're BOTH pulling your weight but there aren't enough hours in the day for what you're trying to achieve.

It might be worth trying to move the discussion away from 'which of us needs more support?' towards a mutual 'how can we both get the support we need?'.

I agree that your partner might need some counselling, and it sounds like you both need some 'time off'.

Does your baby have a bedtime routine ie. a predictable bedtime each night? If not, establishing one might help - I love knowing that from 7pm each night we're baby-free.

Also, night time weaning will help enormously. Your argument at night is so familiar to me! I suggest that you discuss any strategies for weaning during the evening, and make a calm plan before you start any changes. For example, it might be an idea to do the weaning over a long weekend when you can catch up on sleep in the mornings. Discussing it in the middle of the night, while the baby is crying, is bound to cause arguments!!!

The idea of asking the Gparents to take the baby each week is a brilliant idea.

Also, what about scheduling in 'nights off' for each other? For example, your partner goes out every Thursday night and you go out every Friday?

Can you afford a cleaner, a day in nursery or the occasional babysitter?

Ladies (& Gents if any are posting),

Many thanks for all your replies - it's been good to get some insight and external perspectives from people that have no doubt been in the same boat at some point.

I think I've got a good solid base of constructive options that my partner and I can discuss, she's amicable when bribed with dark chocolate so will sit down with her and come to a conclusion. I'm going to close the thread for now as It's achieved its purpose (i.e giving me a sense of perspective on things).

Many thanks to everyone!

Hi,
As mrs hungry I feel I need to come in and say my bit as hungry dad has left out some really key pieces of info.
He told me about his thread here I didn't stumble upon it and recognise myself!

Following the birth of DD I have been formally diagnosed with PTSD and am being seen by the clinical psych team but the waiting lists are very long and all I have had so far is a few assessements. Even if I do get bumped up the list it is unlikely I'll get seen before about sept time.
It manifests itself mainly in horrendous insomnia, night terrors and nightmares with flashbacks from the birth that are really horrible.
I do have difficulty sleeping and I am one of those people who is utterly incapable of coping on zero sleep at all.

Now, the thing with Dad going in to settle her when she wakes in the night. It sounds as if this has been going on for ages- it hasn't. We started a gentle night weaning process on Saturday in preparation for me returning to work next month.

Dd recently moved into her own room (3 wks ago)-no problems with this but she is still waking, on average twice a night. Previously I had been feeding back to sleep and this is what I did when we were co sleeping but I know she does not require the feeds in the night and am trying to break the habit a bit to save both of us from a lifetime of night wakings!

Last night was a particularly bad night. The two before she had gone 6.30-5.30 am without a feed and Dad had managed to settle her back to sleep with a sip of water and/or cuddle no problem at all.

Last night at 2.30 am when she woke hungry dad couldn't settle her as quickly and so was shouting at me to come and feed her, I suggested to give it a couple more mins suggested picking her up and shushing etc but he wasn't having any of it.
It was late-I'd only literally just managed to get to sleep-he was knackered. We both snapped at each other. We've all been there in the early hours I'm sure.

In terms of the mornings yes she is up early but we do take turns in bringing her downstairs it isn't exclusively him doing it although he does do the majority of the time.

I do a lot with the baby, I love the little madam dearly and have no PND concerns just the things that are related to the birth trauma that will take some real time to get through.

For what it's worth, I love going to our playgroups, I have a great network and various different ones we go to and one I help run with some other mums.
I spend 24/7 with DD (other than my sacred weekend 'time off' that has already been mentioned ) and she is my everything. We do all sorts of things together now much more than we did in the early days when she was quite unwell.

DD has multiple severe food intolerances and reflux that she was hospitalised and heavily medicated with when she was younger, this is now improving now she's eating more solids though.

Anyone who has had a baby with reflux will understand the strain that it put on us as a couple and our families too with a baby who cried 20 hours a day for 5 months...Tis wearing indeed.

All in all I think we had a really bad night last night, are both sleep deprived and totally overwhelmed with how active and amazing our little girl is and how much she takes it out of us (even though we're in our 20s)

Hungrydad, I really hope tonight will be better.
I am glad you posted though and hope it made you feel better? X

I am first time mum to 7 week old dd. My Dh doesn't do night feeds as he has work. He does help in evening. My housework is bare minimum at moment. I don't get nearly a full day at weekends to myself! I understand your PTSD I had terrible labour. I think however your very lucky to have a Dh that does so much. And thus is coming from someone who is terrible with no sleep

sometimes i think first-time parents can have unrealistic expectations such as "sleeping through the night".
to be honest, i only know one little boy who has sleptthrough since 5 weeks old... the majority of my friends still have 3 or 4 years old children waking up at night (especially first children, siblings seem to be sleeping better?)
there is no amount of "night training" that will guarantee parents a restful night. it really does depend on children, but of course it is hard to really understand that when you have only one child.
and sometimes mums try to outdo each other at playgroups so thats not helpful either...
it is tough and exhausting to be parents and sometimes you have to accept to do much more for the benefit of the family as a whole. nobody likes to wake up early and skip breakfast... but if it is what it takes so my DP passes his exams, then i'll do it with a smile.

good luck to both o f you

Mr & Mrs Hungry, I'm not sure it's the right thing to be discussing your argument on a public forum - I can see it spiralling.

Mr Hungry it was disingenuous to say that you had always done all the night getups when you clearly haven't been.

Mrs Hungry: I know she does not require the feeds in the night and am trying to break the habit a bit to save both of us from a lifetime of night wakings.

Actually you don't know she doesn't need the feeds in the night - you said yourself she's had lots of problems with food and reflux. She may genuinely need the night feeds to catch up to where her body wants to be. And obviously it won't be a lifetime of night wakings, it'll probably be a month more if that. If she needs to eat at night then she needs to eat at night. 9 months is the earliest that solids really start taking over from milk in any case. If she's not ready for night weaning then you're just setting all of you up for a miserable time.