Here's a weird one for you - come and tell me that this is all part of adolescence please!

[TheRhubarb]

So, dd is 11yo and going through the first stages of adolescence.

I'll start at the beginning and lead up to her weird behaviour.

She had this annoying habit of pulling these really unflattering faces at random which I never brought up as I thought better of making a big deal of it. Luckily she seems to have stopped this but told me a few weeks ago that she has started talking in her head to inanimate objects. I assumed she meant her toys, but no, she means pencils, pens, chairs, doors etc.

That I found a little strange but decided again, to just let it go.

Then I noticed her smiling randomly, almost a grimace type smile which would flicker across her face like a tic. I never mentioned it but last night she brought it up herself. She says that not only does she still talk to things in her head but she has to smile at them too. She says she can't help it and that her classmates have started to notice which embarrasses her.

I was at a loss as to what to advise. I've never heard of this before. So is this just one of those idiosyncrasies that come and go with puberty? What can I tell her to do? Is it a form of tic? If so, will it go away?

Please tell me this is normal!

Hmm, interesting responses...

Sounds like an idosyncracy that's turned into a bad habit. A form of daydreaming, perhaps. Think we've all got lost in our own thoughts occasionally and then found we're smirking at some private joke while the people on the bus are backing away nervously. :) Are the inanimate objects taking on the role of 'imaginary friends'? Does she have friends at school? What kinds of things does she say to pencils and chairs?

Maybe the answer is to get her to focus more on what people are saying in real life. Articulate what she's thinking rather than tell a door. If it's only been going on for a few weeks it could stop as quickly as it started.

torrettes and tics are very commonly developed in adolescents. I would keep an eye on it, certainly the talking in her head is what made me think this sounded like torretts, not that Im diagnosing or saying that is what it is. Also dont be worried it may not develop into anything more either. If you are concerned talk with your GP. But just now I would just accept this is part of who she is, unless it begins to concern her or show signs of further development.

I haven't actually asked her what she's saying to the tables and chairs. I imagine something along the lines of "hello table, how are you today? Mind if I sit here?"

When I notice her doing it, it's usually when I'm reading her a bedtime story or at teatime when we're all together as I guess that's when I see most of her. The smile is directed towards 'something' but is just a flash of a grin, like a reflex action and I have wondered if she was aware that she was doing it.

She says she just got into a habit of smiling at objects and now can't help herself.

She is a bit of a daydreamer. Are there tips on how to concentrate more?

Personaly I wouldnt start to look at tips or stratorgies as i think it will draw too much attention to it, I would ask her her own thoughts on it next time she brings it up in converstaion. My brother has similar tics and he does belive he has torettes that has never been diagnosed. It is very uncomfertable for him if people draw attention to it, even close ones. all of our children including his own have at some point noticed and asked him what he is doing and why he does it. It makes him do it even more he says once someone mentions it to him, it almost consumes him and for quite a few days the conversation about it stays in his head and he tics even more.

See this is what I am afraid of, that it might be a tic. I have ignored it up until now but if her friends are noticing and asking her about it, well then what do I do? I don't want to label them as tics in case they aren't and in a funny way I think that if I tell her she has tics it might actually ensure that she does have them, iyswim?

I would just let dd take the lead on how she manages things, It may not be a massive issue around her friends, they may or may not just accept it as part of her. I think its probably sensible just now not to label it, but if it is becoming problematic for dd, she may want to understand why she does it and what tics are in which case you will probably need to acknowledge it as such, but like you say just now, i would not. take the lead from dd as and when problems arise. if it is something she can controle and if it isnt a tic she may develop more self awareness and simply stop doing it.

Cheers

Could you speak to your GP alone and then take her along on a 2nd appointment so that the GP can observe her ?

If this is done with the GP's agreement you can tell her at the second appointment that you are going for yourself (make something up like tummy upsets or something like that) but just bring her along. Say you don't want to leave her in the waiting room alone.

If it carries on and she becomes anxious about it in school then perhaps I will make an appt with someone like that. Although I am acutely aware that if it is a form of Tourette's, nothing can be done but to see if she grows out of it.

"I imagine something along the lines of..."

Do ask rather than imagine. It may be that the inanimate objects are taking the place of various characters in a story, for example.

"She is a bit of a daydreamer. Are there tips on how to concentrate more?"

It comes down to practise and time. Memory games for example like pelmanism or those 'I went shopping and I bought a XYZ' where everyone adds a new item to the list and you have to remember them. Mental agility exercises like trying to think of an animal that starts with each letter of the alphabet.

If she is a daydreamer she'll have whole conversations popping around in her head all the time. They are bound to surface occasionally and that's when you get an involuntary smile or some other expression. A lot of daydreamers chat to themselves. Again, it's only been going on for a few weeks.

Cheers Cognito, I will ask her and try to reassure. I'll also tell her to actively try to improve her concentration levels. She does have a memory book for kids that I bought for her whilst she was in primary school so it might be worth revisiting that for a few tips.

I'll let you know if she says that the inanimate objects chat back to her!

It could possibly be tourettes or it could be OCD.

She says that not only does she still talk to things in her head but she has to smile at them too. She says she can't help it and that her classmates have started to notice which embarrasses her

That sounds like a self imposed 'rule' rather than an involuntary thing.

Ask her what will happen if she doesnt smile at them.

OCD can arise out of small anxieties, the OCD things can end up being bigger than the initial anxiety.

My son had a similar issue, he had conjured up in his head the idea that if he didnt do the 'thing' he had to do that something horrible would happen to us as a family [namely zombies would eat us!]

It started when he was having a difficult time at school and from what I understand about it, the 'ticcy' part is done as a thing that is easy for the doer to control [unlike whatever is causing the anxiety] but then the worry of what will happen if they dont do the tic becomes bigger and thats when it is hard to stop doing.

He doesnt really do it any more, hes much happier now and pretty much a regular 15 yr old.

Talking through what was causing the initial anxiety helped lots.

Thanks AmberLeaf

Hi The Rhubarb, my son has the exact same thing as amberleafs DS, he is seeing a counsellor as the doctor thinks its anxiety and possibly OCD. he has an active imagination too. I myself did similar things at that age, like having to complete certain processes or my family would die.It was definitely a self imposed rule and I did grow out of it as i got more settled and confident at high school

My other son flaps his hands and waves his arms all over the place. he has had to work hard at controlling it but he still moves his hands a lot, kind of like a spasm, and flicks his head to the side frequently, seemingly involuntarily, and makes a little noise and funny shape with his mouth, the noise is a kind of throaty 'oh!' sound. he does this when he is excited or thinking about something exciting. he is not aware he is doing it. He is waiting to see a paediatrician, I believe his tics are connected to his dyspraxia,which is why he has been referred to the paediatrician

I know my DS's have slightly different symptoms to your DD, OP but I would do as pippop1 says and go along to the GP just to get it checked out

I used to talk to toilets at that age. Not just our toilet, I had to introduce myself to strange toilets too. It sounds completely mad now (I told my partner about it the other week, that was a mistake...) and I can't really remember why I did it, but it didn't last that long. I was quite a shy child and used to live a lot inside my head, having conversations with myself and telling myself stories, I think it was an extension of that. I've always had mild OCD tendancies, getting stuck in checking loops, having to say certain words when doing things, which I think is related too.

It never turned in to anything to worry about, I'm very normal now. :)

Thanks everyone and zuulem, my dd used to have phone conversations with her poo whilst sat on the toilet! Mind you, she was only aged 3 then and I vowed I would never keep mentioning it every time I got the chance

I think for now I will just let it lie. I'll talk to her a little more tonight but unless she wants me to do something, which at the moment she doesn't, then I'll not make a big deal of it, but if it's ok with zuulem I might tell her that as it will comfort her to think that she's not odd.

If it gets more frequent or she wants to do something about it, then I contact the school first to ask if they have any kind of mentor she can go to, then I might consider the GP.

Thanks again!

Hi I would definitely consider talking to your Gp so that you can access a child psychologist. It may be a tic/tourettes/anxiety or nothing psychological at all but I think it would be best to get a professional assessment. Child psychologist in my experience are great, very approachable and I think it would be reassuring for both you & your daughter to discuss this with them. Your Gp will be able to refer you to a service (at the practice where I used to work they would come to the Gp surgery). Personally I wouldn't ignore it if friends & other school children are beginning to notice and it makes a
her uncomfortable then it is best to try and get to the bottom of it.

I was a very shy child and spent a lot of time on my own. I used to apologise to potatoes for peeling them! And I chatted away in my head to things and generally lived in a world in my head. I taught myself not to do it when others were around eventually but still have my own fantasy world inside my head that I retreat to sometimes, it can be a lot nicer than the real world!
Not sure if this helps but I think I appear normal to most people.

benne81 - my son was down to access a child psychologist for his separation anxiety disorder. We were put on a waiting list, then the service moved to a different authority and they've told us we have to re-apply. The waiting list is months long and the sessions they give you are 6 one hour sessions.

NCIS I think we all have strange quirks and habits. Most of the time we are able to keep our quirks to ourselves so that we appear 'normal' from the outside. It's only when they start to be noticeable that we worry. Anyway, she's told me that she doesn't want me to approach anyone about it and I didn't notice them as much this weekend, so for now my plan is to see if she stops of her own accord. If she doesn't or it gets worse then I'll approach the school first as they might have resources available to her there.

Thanks all