Who do you think is handling this right - DP thinks i'm too soft, I think he's too strict

[iwouldgoouttonight]

We have DS who is 5 and DD who is 3, we both work almost full time and we're probably both a bit stressed. But I think DP is too harsh on the DCs sometimes.

For example, DD gets a sticker on her chart if she doesn't shout us to wake us up in the morning (trying to get her to wait in bed until a reasonable hour rather than waking us at 5am!). This morning she shouted me to go into her at about 6am, so she didn't get a sticker. She started to cry because she wanted a sticker so I explained that that stickers are for when she waits for me to go into her room to get her up. She cried for a bit so I ignored her for a bit, then tried to distract her for a bit, which worked, and then she came to me for a cuddle and all was fine and she said she'll try for a sticker tomorrow.

DP said I should have put her in the naughty corner as soon as she started crying at me and we shouldn't have to be with her when she's crying. He said because I spoke to her before she'd stopped crying she had got her own way. I said she's not because she wanted a sticker and she didn't get one. He said she wanted attention so she cried and me talking to her and calming her down played into her hands and now she will think if she wants attention she just needs to cry and shout.

I think he uses the naughty corner too much and leaves them in there for too long. I tend to use it if they have been deliberately naughty - eg, hitting - but otherwise I try to distract them or try other things. I find it diffuses the situation more quickly and then we can just carry on what we were doing. DP tends to use the naughty step any time they don't do what he asks them and he leaves them there until they stop crying, which can sometimes be up to 20 minutes. I think thats too long and they've probably forgotten why they're even there. He thinks if we take them out of the corner before they stop crying then they have won.

Last night, DS was messing about a bit - he was a bit overexcited and took ages getting undressed for bed, etc. DP started to take toys away every time he didn't immediately get undressed, so DS got really upset about his toys going, and went to bed in tears and it took him about an hour to calm down and get to sleep. I thought it might have been better to try to distract DS, maybe make getting undressed into a game, possibly bribery (!) e.g. if you get undressed before I count to ten you can have an extra story or something.

What do you think? Is DP being too strict or an I being too soft?

I'm with you completely - but my DH thinks I am too soft with our two as well.
WRT your DP, the talk of "winning" and stuff makes it all sound too much like a battle. If you use the naughty corner, removal of toys etc too often I think it loses its impact and you just end up with unhappy parents and an unhappy, probably naughtier, child. IMHO, anyway :)

Your Dh's use of the naughty corner/step makes him sound like an angry controlling idiot to be honest.
1m per year of childs life is the norm. And they can get off when they've appologised for what they've done. They should always be given a warning that naughty step will be the next thing if they don't stop doing X, or start doing y for example.
And I'm the stricter parent in our family!

I think you handled it fine. 20 minutes is far too long anyway, it is supposed to be a minute per year, so 3 minutes for you DD and 5 for you DS. I would only punish for deliberate defiance or violence.

Had to add, if his aim in life is to break your DC's spirit (that's what it sounds like tbh), you and he are going to getting a lot more problems later on in life.

Your dh seems to be missing the point and punishing the child for displaying their emotions. i agree ignore whining etc but its unfair to punish a child for being upset about getting told off. I'm with you on this one.

Thanks for the replies. So, next question, if DP is being too strict, as seems the general consensus - how do I tackle him about it? He believes what he is doing is right.

Aw man! you sound like you have it right, your DP does sound like he is trying to train your DCs to be as he wants them to be, rather than as they are. A three year old waking and crying for attention really isn't bad behaviour, is just normal, as is being boisterous and leaving them to cry is a bit sad tbh.

Heck knows how to broach it with your DP as we don't know his personality. I think (sorry to say this OP) he sounds a bit scary and er, forceful and not open to suggestion! Sorry if he is a big softy really though tbh I guess you wouldn't be asking the question if he was open to discussion.

There is no doubt in my mind that the way he disciplines your children ultimately will make them unwilling to cooperate. They need some space to be themselves and express themselves too as they are people not pets you don't like. I don't know how you can get that across to him but really, being kind and listening to your kids won't turn them into brats as quickly as leaving them when they are upset and controlling every aspect of their waking day. Maybe ask him if you can do it your way for a couple of weeks and see how it goes? if he sees hhow you do it and the positive effect it will inevitably have on the kids and household maybe he will come round that way. And, sorry, I think you will just have to get up with your DD when she wakes. Rubbish I know and if your DP won't do it then I guess it falls to you... :( I always get into my DS's bed when he wakes early and we go back to sleep together - could this be an option?

Not very helpful, sorry...

Thanks. My DP is going through a bit of a rough time emotionally - he thinks he is suffering from depression, although is finding it difficult to do anything about it. A lot of the time he is open to suggestions and much more patient with the DCs, but then he goes through phases where he is much stricter and grumpy when I make suggestions about doing it another way.

I'm not too worried about DD waking up early - she is quite into the sticker chart idea so she tries to stay in bed, but sometimes gets bored so shouts. I don't have a problem with that, I'm used to early waking, but I just say she can't have a sticker that day. The problem with that issue is just when she cried for not getting a sticker how we handle that. I think DP is wrong to put her into the corner for crying.

Its normally always me who gets up with her because if DP does go she normally gets upset and cries for me. He then tends to leave her crying and says I shouldn't go to her otherwise she will have got her own way. So its easier and less upsetting if I just go myself.

your DP is totally wrong with his use of the naughty corner.

the steps are
1 warning
2 naughty corner for 1min per year of age, with explanation of why they're there
"you didn't listen when i asked you to/told you to..."
3 after timer is up, explain why they were there
4 get apology
5 hugs and kisses.

he's being very unfair with its use, and yes, is trying to break their spirit.

if she's shouting because she's bored, isd there any way of her having something to do when she wakes early?
like, have her put all her clothes on, and make her bed.
brush her teeth, do an activity i her room?

i would just ask him why if thinks its ok to punish her for an emotion she has no control over? in that situation i would empathise 'i know your sad you didn't get.....but if you stay in bed tomorrow you will', then ignore all the whining after. by ignoring it rather than punishing her she is less likely to do it, she's getting his attention by crying. (phrasing it like that helped my dh when we had similar problems)

I think you are right about most things and 20 minutes on naughty step is too long though i do think sometimes longer is ok for something more serious i do not think repeatedly hitting a younger sibling is the same as not sitting nicely for dinner,

and so does not merit the same punishment /reflection etc

I tihnk its ok to be a bit upet about no sticker but if she keeps on whinging about it, you could then give a warning about whinging and follow through if necessary

if she wakes too early is she going to bed too early?

I think DP is generally too strict but you might be a bit too soft especially about the whinging about decisions

you need to speak to Dp but not in front of Dc as it will appear to undermine him and then make him moe likely to dig in heels

Just pondering on the fact that you said your DP thinks he is depressed and is having a hard time handling it combined with the fact that he puts your DCs in the corner / sends them away when they're expressing their negative emotions (e.g. crying). Perhaps he is resenting the children's ease with which they express their emotions and the way they get your sympathy, when he is finding it difficult to express his own? Maybe he needs sympathy/empathy? (we all have a little hurt child inside us I think.. some people more than others)

I definitely agree with what others have said here that yours is the best way of handling young kids' emotions/tantrums. However, with regards to your DP and his depression the solution may not be a simple case of who is 'right' and who is 'wrong', but rather addressing his own emotional issues, so he can stop being triggered by your DCs and won't need to punish them for their emotions.

Hope that makes sense!

weeeell...... you could get a copy of the 'Incredible years' wesbter stratton book (whom I think) as the originator of time out and encourage him to read it. It is very clear about boundaries etc but there is neat illustration of the pyramid of sanctions/things you can do..... time out is kind of last resort or for very not ok things eg hitting etc.
Or you could try out couple therpay for depresion (ask your GP for a referal to IAPT service....) if you think he's depressed. Or you could be gently empathic about his depresion/stress and try and support him to finding a counsellor?

Rrreow - I think his depression definitely has something to do it - its only in the last few months that he's being so much more strict/less patient, and that's about the time his behaviour has changed generally.

I spoke to him about it last night - I just said I think we need to talk about how we handle the DCs when they are naughty or difficult and make sure we do it consistently. I said that I think he can be too harsh - and uses the naughty corner too much and leaves them there for too long. He says the number of minutes per year of their life is just a made up thing and doesn't mean anything . I said its a guideline and obviously a minute or two either way won't matter but leaving them there sobbing for 15 minutes is too much.

He said he won't stay in the same room listening to them shouting and crying so they have to go out of the room until they stop. I suggested trying other ways of stopping them, e.g. distracting them, or making then laugh, but he said that's giving them the message that if they scream and shout they will get what they want. I said if they're screaming and shouting for a particular thing which we don't want them to have/do, then I won't let them have/do it but I will try to stop the screaming and shouting, so they won't have got what they want by screaming, but they will have stopping screaming!

With regards to the length of time in the naughty corner, he said that if we just left DS in there for 5 mins he'd cry and shout for the whole time and then when he came out of the corner he'd still be crying and shouting and the situation would be the same as before he went into the naughty corner. I see where he's coming from with this, and it sometimes takes more than 5 minutes to actually get DS to stay in the naughty corner, as we have to keep putting him back - he'll run out and try to get back to where we are.

But I said we need to try to stop the situations escalating so quickly so we won't need to use the naughty corner so much - so if DS is playing up, try to distract or quickly diffuse the situation so that he doesn't get any attention for the bad behaviour and calms down. DP said he'd rather put him straight into the corner so he knows that playing up doesn't get attention at all.

So basically we disagree and I'm not sure what to do next. If DP is being too strict its difficult for me to intervene because then I'm undermining him and not being constent and the DCs will realise they can come to me as I'll be the 'soft' one (which they already do a bit). I think their behaviour (DS especially) is getting worse because he has realised he can play one of us off against the other.

naughty corner/step should be one minute for each year of child's age-any longer is counter productive

We don't do naughty corner/step, but I do sometimes tell the DCs to go away and calm down, then come back when they are ready to talk sensibly.

iwouldgoouttonight it sounds like a really tough situation for you. It's very difficult when you're not seeing eye-to-eye on these things as you've rightly pointed out that the kids will pick up on these things and take advantage.

Would your DP be amenable to coming up with a solution that suits you both? Sit him down again to talk about it with him and approach it from the point of view of: this is my opinion about discipline, and this is yours, we know we don't agree with each other, but it's important for our DCs that we have some rules in place and are consistent on what we will do going forwards so let's come up with some solutions. Then maybe get a piece of paper and write down all suggestions from both him and you and see what you can agree on and whether there are any things you can meet in the middle on?

I'd really recommend reading 'How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk' (the making a list idea is straight from the book). It's great for helping communicate with anyone: my DS is only 11 months, so the only person I've been trying it out on is DH and when he's in a 'mood' he sounds a bit similar to your DP, and it works really well. It's all about communicating with respect.

The how to talk book rrreow recommends is very good and suitable for your 5 year old, and less so for your 3 year old. Another great book your DP may benefit from reading is playful parenting which explains the rationale for distraction techniques and learning through play.

Please keep trying to tackle this and come to an agreement, your DC will be very upset as they get older if you manage them differently.

FWIW i would do the same as you and I think your DP is much too harsh. That level of telling off should be saved for something really bad, like wilfully hurting another child etc. It may take quite a lot of convincing to make him see that just because he was brought up that way (??) doesn't make it right.

Good luck

I actually have the How to talk book somewhere - I'd forgotten about that. Will have a look in it.

Until me and DP have managed to sit down and work this out properly, I've suggested that I put the DCs to bed, as this tends to be the time they are most likely to play up - everyone is tired and less patient and this is when DP is likely to get cross with them. Bedtime last night was so much calmer and they both went to bed with no problems (I am aware this may just be a fluke!)

I know thats not a solution becuase I can't just keep DP away from them and do everything myself, but he agreed that me doing bedtime for a bit might help, and then I'll keep trying to talk to him about coming up with a compromise about discipling, etc in general.

Just to clarify, I recommended the 'How to talk..' book with regards to talking to your DP, not with regards dealing with your DCs.

By putting the children on the naughty spot for crying he is trying too teach them not to express their emotions.

Does he honestly believe that crying in itself is naughty?

Reading with interest as I'm in a similar place with my DH. Other than leaving books open in the hope he'll read some of theory behind why I do things the way I do, I'm not holding out much hope of being able to convince mine.

Will he understand having it explained that the more he uses the naughty step for "everyday" naughtiness it will lose it's effectiveness for the really naughty behaviour?

Came on here looking for advice on this topic and what the OP posted rings so many bells with me, so you have my full sympathies although am afraid not much helpful advice. I've recently bought a couple of the books mentioned above but getting DH to take much notice of their contents has been fruitless so far.
At the moment I'm just trying to lead by example so he can see how much less stressed family life is without so much confrontational parenting. I don't care so much about undermining him as I think that as long as each of us is consistent in our approach then the children will know where they stand, won't they?