Babies cries itself to sleep every night...is it harmful.

[what2eatwhenurbored]

Hello,

I've been living in Argentina with my 13 week old DS, BF and healthy and finally back to live in the UK. I've not had any family support or primary care providers and so I've managed with online help alone, especially when it comes to bed time.

So I don't do a routine but since 4 weeks try to put DS to bed around 7pm, recently fed, changed, clean, relaxed and burped etc. He will of course scream and cry which I expect and so after a google one night I left him alone and waited 10 mins...at 9 minutes he fell silent into a deep sleep. I carried on with this, going in to settle at 10 minute intervals. It usually takes 2 attempts, rare occasions 3.

I wonder is it normal and safe to continue this way? I've stayed with friends recently who do 'settle and leave' or something which sounds nicer but I feel I keep picking DS up and 'shh' him back to calmness he always starts up again and it prolongs the inevitable.

I always check him again once he's silent and he looks peaceful but often he kicked all the covers off and it is several inches up the cot from where I placed him.

What are other people doing? Has anyone had any useful advice or experience they would like to share?

Thanks for reading.

Don't think it's normal or safe at all to be doing controlled crying with a baby so young.

Hi there,
Controlled crying is what you describe and is not recommended for babies less than 6 months.
Why don't you have a read of an independent sleep text such as this
www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Your-Child-Sleep-Childhood/dp/0600613453/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333481445&sr=1-1

Because? Thanks for sharing your opinion I'm keen to know why as I don't have much information and I'm keen to know a better method.

Thanks for book recommendation.

You will find on this site many people are very anti controlled crying. I am not but there is sound evidence that it shouldn't be done under 6 months and this is accepted by sleep 'experts'. Reasons include the inability to be sure they are not hungry etc, stress and the need to respond to need. You may find methods such as those by the baby whisperer suit you as she does put the babies down but then uses various comfort methods to settle the baby. this is an area where people are v opinionated which is why I recommend that book as a little more balanced.

In fact your 'shh' method is a baby whisperer thing nearly!

anti or not, I can't understand why people do this or how they can bear listening to their baby scream

what you should do instead?

perhaps cuddle him and and comfort him?

I wouldn't do controlled crying at 13 weeks.

If you're breast feeding have you considered feeding to sleep, it worked really well for us. We first allowed DS to cry (a little) at 11 months... But we never left his side and patted him until he fell asleep.

urgh, I dont leave my DCs to cry to sleep now and they are much older.

How sad, imagine there you are crying your heart out and you are sent to a room to do it alone.

I suppose it really depends on what you mean by 'crying' which can be quite variable. With DD1 I was always rushing in at her first cries and shushing her and rocking her, trying to feed her more and work out why she was crying etc - basically trying hopelessly unsuccessfully to get her off to sleep as she became more ridiculously overtired, often in and out of her room and crying (from both of us) for hours. I came to the conclusion later that I had actually been waking her up each time, as once I left her to it a bit more she turned into a fantastic sleeper. With DD2 and DS I was far too busy to go rushing in at each cry e.g. I'd have popped DD2 into her cot and be reading DD1 a story and so when DD2 started crying and fussing she'd probably get left for 5 / 10 mins or so whilst I dealt with the other child and then lo and behold by the time I went to her I'd find she would have dropped off to sleep. Exactly the same with DS. So what I am saying is that, as I discovered with babies no. two and three, it is not unusual for a bit of wind down crying / fussing to be a precursor to sleep - but if what your DS is doing is full on screaming then I think maybe you shouldn't be leaving him for so long. You don't have to lift him out of the cot - a bit of patting and shushing, or simply folding laundry and pottering around in the room can be enough of a calming influence.

Thanks Samvet I was feeling terrible but you've helped. I certainly don't let my baby 'cry it out', it's just that as soon as he is left in cot a few minutes he cries and so I had started leaving him a few minutes before soothing him which works but I didn't want it to be a long term method, my gut tells me that's wrong as it takes a total of 20 minutes on average (not in a row) but that he needs to be left alone at times to unwind and often gets irritated when held.

Any balanced views welcome, I will investigate the book.

Thanks

Can't you stay with him and stroke him or shush him? Leaving a little baby to cry for so long must be very stressful for both of you - he is too tiny to understand where you have gone and if you will ever come back.

I am by no means an oracle as my first child is only 4 months old

Hiwever, I think that letting your baby cry himself to sleep every night at only 3 months old is probably not the best way to help him develop at such a you g age. Very little babies need to know that you are there when they need you to meet their needs and really tend not to cry for no reason.

Other things you could try are feed to sleep (lovely, cuddly time is feeding at bedtime!), feeding until very sleepy and the putting down, rocking / cuddling to sleep, soothing and sitting by the cot until he drops off (so not holding, but still there and reassuring) and lots more.

You must be pretty tough to be able to withstand 9 minutes of crying though. I can barely get through one

There is a difference between crying and "protesting" I found that I lay along side dd with my dd as she is whinging with my hand on her and she settles. Did this for about 2 weeks now she self settles after a minute of whinging. She is 13 weeks

Nellie the Elephant my DS sounds likes your DD1, thanks for sharing your experience.

Cazboldy I certainly never leave my DS to 'scream' and he gets plenty of cuddles not janedoe do i leave him in a room to 'cry his heart out'

Let me clarify that by crying I mean the quieter side of crying with long pauses inbetween, getting longer and I only allow this (as I said) once clean,fed,burped etc

My fault for wording the title in such a provacative way I suppose, I was more looking for experiences from parents of babies who take a while to settle to see if I can lessen the time it takes.

My advice is that as your LO gets older, he'll naturally get better at being on his own and settling. But at the moment he obviously still needs the closeness to you. Invest in a sling so you can go about your business and he can sleep happily on your chest. In a few weeks try putting him down to sleep when he seems tired (maybe put something in with him that smells of you) and see what happens. One day he'll just drift off to sleep without the tears, but only when he's ready.

Babies sometimes cry a bit at night to "release stress and tension" before falling asleep (I read this in book).
As long as your baby doesn't scream his head out, I don't see the problem, in fact it sounds like your LO is learning to self settle.
Some people will never let their LO cry for fear of irreparable damage, so do expect them to be very critical of what you are doing.

I would leave such a small baby to cry on his own. Can you not just sit by his cot and stroke him until he falls asleep.

I think you need to get to know your child and learn what his cries mean.
Yes, its normal for them to complain and toss and turn a bit before falling asleep, but its also normal for them to feel afraid of being abandoned (they are just like all baby mammals at that age - they know when they are alone, feel vulnerable to predictors and cry as the only way to save themselves).

I think everyone would agree that our job as parents is to teach them that they don't have anything to be scared of, not to teach them that nobody comes when they cry.

There have been lots of studies in the last 10 - 15 years on the development of the brain and it has been found that the ability to handle stress in later life depends on the way a babies stress was handled. Too much cortisol means parts of the brain don't develop properly.I'll try to link a few studies but have people coming for lunch in 4 mins.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/21/leaving-baby-to-cry-brain-development-damage
www.naturalchild.org/guest/pinky_mckay.html

Also - anecdotally - I know a few people who did controlled crying and their toddlers are annoying, clingy whiney things. I can't be sure that it wasn't the beginnings of this that drove them to it in the first place, or if their children do have more anxiety.

Seems too young.

Ds and dd used to get wound up when I used to rock them because they were tired. To me it was the same as if they were alone and crying and getting tired - so me cuddling them helped them know I was there instead of them crying alone. Used to take ten minutes (which feels longer when you're rocking them but I time it to keep sane!).

Crying really wears out younger babies.

I'd try an earlier bedtime - try 20 mins earlier - so you've got time to soothe to sleep with less or no crying.

ok - more links:
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/brain.html

extracted from this unicef information leaflet:
Leaving babies to cry
Leaving young babies to cry, at any time, but particularly in the belief that they can be ?trained? not to wake at night, not only denies them the nourishment they need, but also risks the potential consequences of leaving them exposed for long periods to high levels of cortisol (the stress hormone) whilst still in infancy 3,4.
While there are still professionals who advocate variations of controlled crying (or ?graduated extinction") for babies over six months of age, many of these people would see any such methods as inappropriate for younger babies 5.
There are currently some who would even recommend leaving babies as young as a couple of weeks old to cry in order to ?teach them to sleep?; the only variations being ?how long? to leave the baby and how often, or how long to ?comfort?. Some simply advise leaving the baby to ?cry it out? until he falls asleep 6.
Since the part of the developing brain that controls behaviour (by suppressing impulses that arise in the sub-cortical area) does not even begin to mature until late infancy 7, it can be argued that this practice is unjustifiable.

(the numbers are references to studies on this)

If you are back in the UK now can you contact your local children's centre to get some real life support with routines and sleeping? Mine have family outreach workers and will come out to visit if you're finding it hard.

I never managed to get mine to sleep in a cot, as I couldn't leave her to cry, and I still stay with her til she goes to sleep now. However, I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, especially without much support and I would really advise contacting your children's centre!

Please don't get too upset if some people are very critical on this thread. There are lots of anti controlled crying people on mumsnet but it is each to there own. I did cc with my DS at 5 months but I knew he was full/ clean nappy etc and I knew him well enough to feel confident. It was brilliant and actually he cried far less than me going in to him and cuddling/stroking him as he would just start crying as soon as I left. Also, as your, finding my DS would cry much more if I picked him up to try and settle him - it just made him cry harder. I do think that 13weeks is quite young though (although I know many others who have done it and they have gorgeous happy and well developed children). Only you know how hard your baby is crying and if you think he needs anything else so I would say go with your instincts - if he is just having a whinge and learning to self settle that is great. If he is really going for it then maybe he does need something else.

Your the mum follow your instincts and don't be clouded by the arguement that is probably going to happen on this thread.