Unconditional parenting followers

[nappyaddict]

My question is about "punishment lite". Which of these are natural consequences and which are logical consequences? Which, if any, are acceptable to allow to happen?

If a child refuses to do things like wear a coat, hat, scarf and gloves when it is cold, I would take them with me so when he gets cold he will ask to put them on.

If he refuses to wear shoes, if his feet hurt he will ask to put them on.

If a child refuses to wear sun cream and sun hat then they have to stay in the shade or indoors.

If a child refuses or is slow to get ready for school, he will be late. This might mean he does not get to choose to play with his favourite toy when he gets there because another child may have chosen it first.

If they make a mess, then they have to help clear it up.

If they refuse to leave the park when asked, to walk nicely or keep running off, they will have to have reins put on or be put in the pushchair.

Thanks for reading.

This is all very interesting. My thing is how does all this work with a child who's taking a long time to learn not to hurt other children. I subscribe to the "it takes a village..." theory to an extent but we have friends who are taking the teach by example route but our children are being hit and shoved a lot while their son learns not to do it. And expects ours to treat him nicely. What would be your approach here?

I would never allow my child to hit other children and if she didn't want to play with my friends' children because they hurt her then I wouldn't make her.

I actually do have a friend who thinks my dd should "man up" about her (much younger) son hurting her, and our children sadly don't spend as much time together as they otherwise would.

My son went through a phase of hurting others, around 2yo. (he's 3 now). I hovered close to prevent incidents, did the 'gentle hands', 'use words' (while supplying words/phrases he could use to e.g. Ask for the toy instead of grabbing it, I saw more of friends with older kids where possible, because I wanted him to learn from them how to resolve disputes etc, and I talked a lot to my friends with same aged/younger children about protecting their kids, about how to handle the situation.

I'm fortunate that none of my friends, 'UP' or not, think punishing a 2yo an acceptable strategy, they were happy to physically intervene, gently say No etc. And one friend stayed away for a couple of months because she hated the conflict between our children. They play beautifully together now.

My son went through a phase of hurting others, around 2yo. (he's 3 now). I hovered close to prevent incidents, did the 'gentle hands', 'use words' (while supplying words/phrases he could use to e.g. Ask for the toy instead of grabbing it, I saw more of friends with older kids where possible, because I wanted him to learn from them how to resolve disputes etc, and I talked a lot to my friends with same aged/younger children about protecting their kids, about how to handle the situation.

I'm fortunate that none of my friends, 'UP' or not, think punishing a 2yo an acceptable strategy, they were happy to physically intervene, gently say No etc. And one friend stayed away for a couple of months because she hated the conflict between our children. They play beautifully together now.

Oops. Sorry

You see, Mavis, that's exactly our strategy. It got us through a sticky patch with Ds between two and three. The problem is that this child is now six and hitting my three year old son. I feel it's a bit out of the ordinary, and that perhaps his empathy is not developing as quickly as other children's. But my Ds is caught up in it all and I am feeling very uncomfortable.

I would keep your child out of a situation where he is being hurt and if that means avoiding this child for the moment that is what I would do.

That is my instinct-the waters are muddied by the fact that the older boy is one of a group of children. And we all live near each other. So then my children miss out on playing outside and with a group of others. It's a pain-and starts to be more of an issue as the weather warms up and the evenings are lighter. So one patents approach has a big impact on others in this case. I do take the approach that if Ds still wants to go out and play then the benefits outweigh the cost for him but can't say I think it's really on. How does up deal with behaviour beyond developmental norms? Dd has her moments but I can't imagine her or any of her friends thumping a younger child.

What does your son want?

How does the parent whose child hits your child deal with the situation, molehill?

When my son gets hurt/upset by another child he often wants me to help him tell the child how he feels. And my support while he says Don't do that again. I guess I'd try that, and ask the 6yo what he's feeling, too - guessing can be helpful, if you check they'd like you to try to guess, as they don't always have the vocabulary.

So I might say, '6yo, were you maybe feeling frustrated/worried about X/something?', rather than asking 'Why'. And if you can get an answer, you then have the opportunity to suggest ways 6yo can deal with his anger/frustration/jealousy. You need lots of empathy for the 6yo, which can be hard when he's just belted your child, but this can be very effective - it can take several goes though. If the 6yo isn't getting listened to at home/some other need isn't getting met, which seems possible if he's hitting a lot, it may take a while for him to relax with you.

But if you can get a connection with him, you'll be able to assess whether you can leave your son around him out of your sight, whereas if you rely on frightening or shaming him I think there's a higher risk of him behaving acceptably in front of you but not when you're not there.

For those that don't do compulsory reins or pushchair what do you do when they get too big and heavy to carry for a long distance?

I did compulsory pushchair (DS is now too big to warrant taking the pushchair let alone be carried for long periods!) as a safety issue if we were near roads etc, but not for e.g. leaving somewhere like the park.

I think I am lucky though in a way as I know DS won't ever go out of sight of me as he doesn't ever let me out of his sight unless he's with another trusted adult. So him running off was never an issue, it was more cars etc which worried me.

We use a bike, he has a scooter, but non-compulsory pushchair's good too!

My son basically wants to play, not specifically with x but in the group of children but doesn't like being hit. My grumpy non up side says that x ought to be removed from play if he is aggressive to other children. Im working it all through tbh, and struggling. It feels as if in order for x to learn without being shamed or humiliated my ds is getting thumped a fair bit. But I am trying to get my head round it all.

What does your son do when x hits him? Is there any way you can equip him - even just to yell loudly for you - to deal with this when it happens?

Mavis-he does that already. I guess I want the other parent to take a bit more responsibility for trying to stop these things arising. I am aware that he doesn't do it in view of adults and I'd at least like to share responsibility for x having more supervision. I am proud of ds's assertiveness, but kind of feel that there's more to it than that. But part of me is not neutral on this.

Yeah, I would want the other parents to be dealing with this too. Can you talk to them?

Mavis Bike and scooter not very good for public transport or shopping though?

The bike's mine plus child seat, we strap the scooter on for when we're parked up, we also take the scooter on buses, trains etc (don't drive). He scooters everywhere really, knows to walk & push it inside & in stations. We don't shop much though, do it online/husband buys stuff, so we're not in a crowded high street situation that often. I love it now that he's so good at it - he can scoot while holding my hand, knows to give people space etc.

What sort of scooter do you have - is it one of those folding ones?

Ours is like this so a bit bulky to carry when going in and out of shops etc.

Molehill What does the other parent do? Is the parent aware that it's happening so they can deal with it?

When DS was younger he was very agressive and we had problems at toddler groups, play centres, the library, the park etc. I used to follow him very closely and was basically attached to him like glue and didn't take my eyes off him for a second. This meant I could prevent most attacks from happening by distracting him when I could see he was about to lash out, but even then there were times when he was just to quick for me to be able to stop him. On those occasions I used to say "no, hitting etc hurts. Gentle hands are nice." And then whichever body part he'd hurt of another person I would show him how to stroke on mine, with big smiles saying "look, gentle hands are nice"

A few people recommended that if after that he did it again then to take him home. I'm not sure if that would be UP or not? Would that be seen as a punishment? Also I think another suggestion was to keep reins on him at the above places where attacks were likely to take place. Again how are reins used in this way perceived in the UP world?