Fuck, I just smacked DD on the bottom, she was being intolerable

[titferbrains]

Hate myself already but she is jsut being UNBEARABLE

Smacking me
shouting at me
screaming
trying to hurt her brother
calling me stupid
refusing to eat food she asked for

all i guess related to being 3 and jealousy of her new brother

HTF am i supposed to appropriately discipline all her unpleasantness?

have shut her in her room for now, she is having a screaming tantrum

she is jealous of little brother yes.

I have tried hard to remind her that I love her, when she does something unpleasant to DS I sometimes actually say DD, I'm here, I love you, you don't need to be unkind to DS but she seems to sometimes be unable to stop herself from "fiddling". He rarely cries but I am so tired of being on watch whenever I put him down. Must admit it's getting easier as he is much more responsive and he is very smiley and affectionate. Am terrified that she will actually hurt him or make him cry/scream and then I really will lose it - DS is one of the nicest babies ever, and I'm not saying that because I'm his mother, he is a genuinely sweet soul. I am also trying to remember to kiss dd when I kiss Ds etc but I am just frustrated that I have spent all this time laying the groundwork so our lives run smoothly together and now DD rarely cooperates and I don't have the energy, sometimes, to care. Don't want to eat? fine. but I can't have this reaction because she only eats enough to sustain her, and if she skips a meal, she wakes up hungry at night. So I cannot just leave it there, I have to cajole, and talk about full tummies etc.

It is very hard being a girl and raising a girl because you know where are this personality and moodiness and slyness and manipulation come from and where it is going. I went to an all girls school for many years and I am so conscious of what girls are like, what they say and what they mean. I am already cringing to hear dd talking in this awful hi-pitched baby voice in order to get attention, and shouting Ga Ga! as loudly as poss to scare the baby (doesn't work, phew!) whilst trying ot make it appear that she is beign lovely. I am so sorry that I have destroyed her world by bringing DS into our family but I know that it will be worthwhile in the end. it's just so tough getting thru the days. I know DD will get easier because she is an amazing girl and everyone sees it. I just wish she could be a little kinder to me.

That is what I shouted at her this afternoon - why are you doing this to me? I am trying to be a good mummy to you and all you do is whine and scream and hit and you make me sad and want to cry...

but you haven't really destroyed her world you know. You have enriched it and she will grow to see that.

I know it might seem like the last thing you want to do, but could someone take DS for a few hours and you and her go and do something special together, just for 'big girls' Let her know she has a special status and you love all the grown up things she can do. Some one-on-one time without baby brother?

I don't want to question your judgement, you know your daughter better than anyone else, but do you think that frustration and tiredeness could be making you interpret things that aren't intentionally in there. Are three year olds really manipulative? I'm just saying try if possible not to 'label' her.

I'm sure you're doing the very best you can under difficult circumstances though

You are clearly at the end of your tether with her and who can blame you, but please don't be tempted to label her as one of the horrid girls you knew at school. She is only three and used to be your baby. I'm sure that in the next few months she will get used to having a little brother. Does she go to nursery? Maybe it's time she went for a few hours to give you some time with the baby.

Have you thought about getting a playpen to put your ds in?

Another technique is when she hurts ds you pick up ds and give him 10000% of your attention and do not give her any at all - not even tell her off. She wants any attention at all at the moment.

It's not very subtle manipulation but she is certainly trying to sound like other mothers she hears so she says "he's so cute, he's so sweet, he's so tiny" in a "mummy voice" then squeezes his wrist or whatever.

Feel dreadful as she has actually been trying very hard in past few days to be good and she makes a point of telling me she's been good and tells me "you're smiling! you're not cross!" so she knows that she needs to try to be better behaved.

I think she was just hungry this afternoon but I was really fucked off when I made her the pasta she asked for then she only ate one bite and then had a screaming fit when I wouldn't give her a banana because a. she hadn't eaten enough and b. we don't have any bananas... grrrrrrrrrrr

Her reaction to almost anything not going her way is to start screaming, crying and stamping. it's just very trying. My mum says I have to remember how little she is but honestly, she cries more than my son does ATM! it is all so over the top!

I agree that we need a bit of golden time together. Was thinking that I would introduce golden mummy and dd time every week and that if she's naughty x times then she gets less/no golden time - read elsewhere on MN about putting a marble in a naughty jar - somehting like that?

anyway going to veg out and try to think nice thoughts. really cannot bring myself to apologise as she hit me while I was breastfeeding which seemed really horrible. But I will apologise, don't worry.

Rather than have a naughty jar, would it bebeter to have a good girl jar - so she gets a sticker or star every time she does something good eg - gets through a meal without screaming, or doesn't pinch him or hit him while you're breastfeeding and at end of the day she gets a reward of some description - like a special story, or a smartie? So you reward good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour?

titferbrains, I so know where you are right now. My wonderful DD is displaying so many similar behaviours at the moment. Especially the asking for everything in a whining way, or screaming and shouting when the answer is 'no'. Its often a battle over everything. And sometimes I can't be bothered to make it into a game or whatever. Sometimes 'no' is just 'no'! It is knackering, I was actually thinking of posting yesterday about it but didn't even know how to describe it, but you've nailed it. My DS is 10 months, and also taking alot of sisterly 'love'..! I tell her constantly not to pull, hold, smother, cuddle, neck-cuddle him but she just can't seem to stop. It does my head in. And the whining voice and screaming, don't get me started! She can be so so lovely and helpful (and I praise her ad-nausem for these times) but when she's not getting her own way she is really very trying. I really feel for you. I have read 'Playful Parenting' but on first (quick) reading I didn't find any really helpful tips for young children... for older ones yes, but not around the 3 yo mark... but maybe I need to read it better. I 'do' the naughty step (or time out step... can't decide which one to call it... at least 'time out' implies that she should be thinking about what happened..?)
Also read Pantley's 'No Cry Discipline' book which has some helpful strategies. I think its often about having different types of things to try/use in different situations. (Still working on this though..!)
Sometimes I think its just being able to say, "shit, the little kid is pissing me off and making me feel like crap" to someone else that helps! We feel your pain! I do find that just leaving the house and walking somewhere helps too... babe in sling, tot in pram with whatever snack she wants... just walk... I find it helps me feel human again and blows out the cobwebs. (And man can they gather with 2 DCs!!!)
Thinking of you and hoping for a better day tomorrow! :)

thank you for so many nice posts. I am exhausted today as she woke at 1am for a leisurely meal of yogurt, cereal and one more bite of pasta (I've accepted that she didn't like it)... and then didn't really go to sleep and woke me again at 3ish having done a poo in her nappy, left the nappy at the top of the stairs, wiped her bum with a sock she found on the floor in her room, and standing iwth her trousers round her ankles downstairs. No idea what she had been up to...

She has been ok this morning, I tried to suggest she sit with me for breakfast but no interest, she had finished her cereal and wanted to prod/squeeze/poke DS instead. So jealous, but still obsessed.

Have a look on channel 4 "iplayer", there are episodes of Supernanny demonstrating the timeout, one-minute-for-your-age technique.

It is very effective combined with positive praise and attention and a bit of dd and mummy special time very day, maybe your DH could look after DS every day while you do the bedtime bath, story and sleep with DD.

I really sympathise. I lost my way with my then 3 year old when baby DD arrived.

I think having a travel cot to leave DS in will help. I think DD is tired and her behaviour will get better once she sleeps better. I think enlisting your HV to come and talk to you about things, her sleep in particular, would be worth trying.

I think you need to find your love for her again. I think to do that you need a combination of time away from her, time alone with her and 'faking it till you make it'. I don't think mummy golden time is a good idea. Time with you is what she craves but she will feel more secure if she knows this is freely available. She shouldn't have to earn it.

Make yourself notice the little lovely things about her. Remind yourself that she's a polite, chatty little girl. Do things for her 'just because'.

I found that Playdoh, paints, cutting etc were great 'treats' for DS, 'big boy' things he could do at the kitchen table without much input from me. Occasionally we'd have a 'night in', I'd get him into his jamas late afternoon and put a DVD on then get the baby to bed, and we'd snuggle under a duvet with something tasty to eat. It all gets easier as the little gets bigger.

First priority is get yourself some time away. Maybe some exercise? To clear your head and refresh you.

It will get easier. I'm less than a year down the line from you and everything is immeasurably better.

There's been so many good ideas here (especially Lougle's about homestart, and getting yourself a break).

I just wanted to add: IT WILL END.

When ds2 was born ds1 went into behaviour overdrive, and both ds2 and I have scars (I mean actual, physical scars) of that horrible time. I couldn't leave them alone for one second. But it did end. When ds2 it gradually became safe to leave them together. Ds1's behaviours gradually got better.

It will end. This is a phase in yours and your dd's life. It will not go on for ever.

The other thing I wanted to say is that there won't be any one magic solution, because behaviour is very, very hard to change. You have to use techniques like praising good behaviour, ignoring bad behaviour, walking away from a violent child (this is what I would do if she is hitting you) hundreds of times for them to work.

Please don't be downhearted if they don't work instantly. If you keep going, they will.

And do, do get some time for yourself. Looking after two very small children is very wearing.

Oops, meant to say 'when ds2 was eight months it gradually got better'

Also, 3 year olds don't always have the greatest ability to see the consequence of their actions. She might not actually be jealous all the time. She probably sees a lovely little podgy wrist and thiinks 'ooh that's fun to squeeze!'

She won't necessarily relate the cause and effect. She won't link 'I squeeze' with 'he cries'.

DD3 is almost 3 and we have a 14 week old puppy. If I've told her once I've told her a hundred times 'do not poke Patch. do NOT wake him up, he's only just fallen asleep. Do NOT pull his tail. Stop poking him in the eye.' She isn't trying to hurt him. She's just exploring him physically!

At this stage I agree with other people...if you can, get your DS some 'territory' that she can't reach. You can get a playpen like this one or this one which can be used either as a hexagon, or can be attached to the wall to create a 'safe zone'.

Personally, I agree with smacking as discipline, but only in certain circumstances which would include my child hurting myself or anyone else (including pets).

The first reason for this is that it is a direct lesson on how 'being smacked' feels, so that they realise just what they are inflicting on others when they do it.

The second reason is so that they learn that there are physical consequences in life for certain behaviours, and will be throughout life.

In your situation I would absolutely have smacked her hand and sent her to her room.

One thing that worked for me was I just refused to acknowledge anything said in a whiny or baby voice. I literally would say once very, very clearly "Speak properly" or "Ask properly" and if the whining continued I would leave the room.

No discussion no ifs or buts. This method also works with tantrums or the hitting. One strike and you are out - make it clear that if she hits/screams/has a tantrum she is out and sent to her room.

Stick with it and DO NOT deviate. It will be hell for a week or two but......

redrubyshoes I do the same thing. I've been doing it for a few weeks now and it seems to finally be sinking in! Very empowering to not have to respond to whiny and whinging requests for things.

Revellish

Bloody difficult to keep up but it does seem to work. Last weekend I was at a family dinner with 11 adults and three nieces. None of the adults managed to finish a conversation because of the constant;

"Muummmmmmeeeeeee she ripped my drawing"

"Dadeeeeeeeee, she took my doll"

"Mummeeeeeeeeee, I want to sit next to you" (she was next to her Dad)

"Mumeeeeeeeeee, I don't like peas" etc etc etc

While Mummy and Daddy stopped the meal and sorted out the squabbles and ordered some other vegetables from the waiter.

My Dh and I sat on our hands. We are not perfect but bloody hell kids are NOT the the be all and end all of everyone's life........................it was a long, long night.

Just say "NO, I WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU WHINE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO HEAR IT EITHER"

I am a nice person really. Promise. Honestly. Realio. Trulio.

Have read with interest as ds is 2.3 and mostly a happy chap but he is the habit now of hitting me. Sometimes it's 'for a laugh' and sometimes he lashes out when having a tantrum. He also kicks when I change his nappy. Have tried the holding hands and speaking firmly-did nothing. taking toys away that he's playing with. Might stop him briefly but still hitting me.
Spoke to dh last night about the naughty step so he's taken away from me and toys so am going to try that. If that doesn't work I'm stumped. I don't want him to grow up thinking it's ok but really struggling to find something that works. I also have a short fuse so have to try and control temper.
I feel for you op. They're still so little and bloody hard to reason with aren't they? I hope you find a solution soon x