Help me ease an 11 week old into some sort of routine... I'm losing my marbles!

[usingapseudonym]

With my first I was very very AP - sling wearing, baby led everything, co-sleeping and I loved it. I was quite suspicious of the GF methods. It also worked for us in that I napped when she did, took her everywhere I went and just fed her when she wanted. She is now a very delightful 3 year old and I have a fantastic relationship with her. However, I did have very broken sleep until she was a year and we night weaned and I did only have one.

My second child is now 11 weeks and I'm exhausted. I've got some parenting books out from the library but I'm too shattered to take it in and keep rereading the same pages over and over. I need some help...

My baby is completely unpredictable - which I know is normal for a baby, but I really want help to ease her into a routine. I know it won't come overnight and I don't want to impose crying etc just some sort of routine advice as I've never had one before.

For example - last night she did sleep 8-12 (so does sometimes go more than 90min/2 hours without a feed) but then woke 1-2 hourly and didn't always go back down after a feed. I rely on feeding to send her back to sleep (as that worked with no 1) but when that doesn't work I dont know what to do. This morning she finally settled again at 6am and slept until 10. However this was only possible as husband was able to take DD1 to pre-school. Normally I have to do that on a pre-school day so would have had to wake her.

I need her to sleep at night more reliably. Any help really welcome. I keep coming across people on threads who have babies that have slept through early - how?! I've been reading some past threads too..

• Should I be waking baby as a matter of course at 7am? At the moment if she is still asleep I let her sleep so I can see to DD1.

*Can they sleep too much? I never used to wake a sleeping baby but if she sleeps more than 2 hours should I wake her during the day?

• I've just started reading that htey shouldn't be awake more than 2 hours - I never knew this. Why doesn't anyone tell you this? Should I encourage a feed after 2 hours to get her to go back to sleep?

Sorry for the rather confused post. I'm so very very very tired.

I was in exactly the same boat as you. Dd1-pretty similar, went ŵith the flow, mostly had great time. Ds came along and I just couldnt go with it as before as had to get dressed and do stuff with dd. therefore after feeling completely exhausted went to library and got book. Decided hd no option but to try and follow. This meant routine mainly, so baby had to learn when day time was, so got baby up at 7, fed regularly through the day, inclu waking to feed, but basically routine. It is hard but very different with baby no 2...or 3.
Sure it would happen eventually, but you do need to guide it a bit.
And babies, toddlers, kids actually like routine, and his gives them security. What more could they want!

Re the nap thing, totally agree, however I never understood that if baby is going to suffer from SIDS in the same room, you are asleep, and won't know. However if you put baby in a separate room, you put a monitor on (movement and sound) an alarm sounds if something is wrong, which is more likely to wake you!! Our little fella was in his room at 3 weeks for all sleeps, I think that's why he has always been a good sleeper perhaps, no disturbance from us.

Obv I know some people will put movement monitor set in same room, but less likely.

KLou111 it's not about whether you know - it's about what the baby knows. Keeping the baby in the room with you isn't so you can hear the baby breathe, it's so the baby can hear YOU breathe. Babies are born with their regulatory systems very underdeveloped and SIDS is when they simply stop breathing because their system just stops for no reason. Adults' bodies are properly regulated and close physical contact allows the baby's body to pick up on your body's regulatory systems. You will see exactly the same thing when a toddler will be off playing happily then suddenly come for a cuddle, then hare off again. It's not a sudden need for a cuddle, it's their body needing a physical 'reset'. Babies need it constantly, which is why they automatically know they want to be held a great deal and it's better to have as much physical contact as possible (that's why slinging is so very good for them and improves brain development so rapidly). Babies are born with a very high tolerance for noise and movement because the womb is an extremely noisy place!

Yes, I am well aware of that thank you octavia but if something did happen while you are all asleep, you are less likely to know!

KLou that's assuming everyone has a monitor with a movement sensor and alarm. They don't. And for the record, i co-slept with DS for around 12 weeks, he stayed in our room until he was 6 months and he, too, has always been an excellent sleeper. So good, in fact, that even at 15mo my DH and I can go out for a late evening meal and he will happily sleep in his buggy for the entirety - in a busy pub/ restaurant - and transfer easily into his cot when we return home.

I didn't know that, that which Octavia said.
that's really interesting.

OP - don't forget you're due for a growth spurt - ours has arrived (11w + 5), yesterday, and we've been feeding for the last 24 hours every 15 minutes after finishing the last hour long feed.
it'll calm down in a couple of days.

mantana we too take our little fella out in busy areas of an evening and he's good as gold, but when it comes to a 'proper' sleep, he seems to prefer being in his room, as he doesn't sleep properly and is grumpy the next day. I know this as we recently went away and had a travel cot in the same room, and none of us slept, and he whinged all the next day. We slept in the lounge area after that for the rest of the week and he was fine. We went away 2 more times to see family for a few nights, and it wasn't to do with where we were, what cot he was in etc, as the other 2 times he was on his own straight away and he was fine.
I wasn't assuming everyone has a movement monitor, but if baby is in a different room, it would be a bit foolish not to have a movement monitor as it would drive you crazy wondering if all was ok. Worth every penny.
I couldn't co sleep tbh as I would be so scared of smothering him in his sleep, hence we wouldn't sleep.

This is your answer- you need the book Save our Sleep by Tizzie Hall. I had my baby on these routines from birth. She has slept through all night every night (except when sick) from 6 weeks and is now 20 months. Do not skip read, go from beginning to finish and it will tell you everything they need as they need it. It is the parenting manual we've all wished for for so long

OP

Yes get her up at the same time every day. This and having a rough bedtime at the same time ish seems to have sorted DD out (13 weeks) a lot faster than DS (we were all over the shop with him for weeks!).

Day sleep and feeds however, go with the flow for now. Sometimes you have to push feeds around ecause of the older one. Naps - similar. Easiest thing to do is stick her in a sling and she can grab sleep that way as and when. I do this with DD and it's so much less stress than with DS who I used to hve to watch for tired signs then force get to sleep withing the two hour window otherwise he'd be so unsettled at night.

DD doesn't sleep well at night though - but that's because she has awful awful wind and reflux. Before it kicked in, she was ok!!

We never had a monitor for either of our children. I was of the mindset that if something was going to happen it would do regardless. My ds (baby 2) also slept on his tummy from early on. It really worried me at first but it was the only way he would sleep. I did do lots of checks of course. Our parents never had all this tech, and managed ok. Sometimes in life you have to think positively as too much worrying is not healthy.

I have been following a routine based on GF (so very similar to that posted by loveis with my twins) they're 16 weeks now.

During the day I am a bit flexible on feeding times, aim to feed every 4 hours (was 3 hourly until 6 weeks old) unless they show signs of being hungry earlier, but sometimes feeding after 3, 3.5, 4.5 hours if it fits in with whatever activities we're doing that day.

They have a nap midmorning, lunch and afternoon, and have always gone to bed in their own room at 7pm since they were 2 weeks old (I slept in a single bed in there with them until about 8 weeks old).

Bedtime routine starts at 6pm with bath, then massage, bottlefeed and bed with lullabies playing. They sleep until I wake them at 11 for last feed of the day (which I will drop gradually) and then sleep until 7am and have done since they were 12 weeks old. At first there were a few grumbles at bedtime but never lasting more than 10 minutes, and since they were about 8 weeks old have gone straight down to sleep at 7pm and 11pm without grizzling.

I've been told that 'this won't last' and warned about sleep regression, but whether it lasts or not, having a routine in place has allowed me to have a life in the evenings and get 8 hours of unbroken sleep each night, the positive effect of which can't be underestimated!

Really hope things get better for you usingapseudonymn. My LO is also 11 weeks and usually sleeps from 7pm until 7am/8am the next day with a feed at 1:30am and another at 4:30/5am, which is fine by me as I co-sleep or have her in the bed-nest. In response to your questions, this is what I found helpful with my LO in case it helps you too:

• I don't wake my baby up at any set time. Sometimes, she wakes a little earlier and sometimes she sleeps a little bit more. Generally though, she doesn't even wake up earlier than 6am and doesn't stay asleep beyond 8am. Not having a strict waking up time doesn't seem to have affected her sleep patterns so far :) Sometimes, I need a bit more sleep if I've had a tiring day the day before and sometimes I get up early when my body just wants to wake up so I see no reason why my LO shouldn't feel the same way.

• When she was smaller, I didn't let my baby nap beyond 3 hours and I'd wake her up for a feed. From 9 weeks on, I decided to just let her nap and wake herself up when she wanted a feed. I rely on her to tell me when she's hungry. She's alert and gaining weight healthily so I'm not concerned about missing a feed. I've also found that if I just let her nap and wake up naturally, she's a much happier baby in the evening. So far, it's been okay and it has never affected her sleeping well at night. My baby can sometimes nap more than 3 hours during the day (although usually at lunch time, not evening). I was warned this would affect her ability to sleep at night but it hasn't so far. I figure my baby is just the kind of baby that needs more sleep (like her dad!).

• At first, I would try to put my baby down to nap if she was still awake at 2 hours b/c I had been told to do this. But then we'd battle as she'd refuse to nap, until I realized that this isn't a rule but a general rule of thumb. All babies are different and I guess in most cases babies will be wanting a nap around 2 hours of awake time. Now I just follow my baby's lead. My cue is usually a yawn or when she starts to get grizzly. Depending on where I am or what I'm doing, I use different methods to get her to nap. Sometimes I feed her if she's due one, or I will rock her in my arms for a few minutes or I just put her in the sling or buggy if I'm out and about.

Btw, a couple of things I found helpful with my baby and not sure if this will work for you:

• White noise really helps my baby to nap during the day when she's overtired and can't send herself to sleep. The hairdryer works most of the time but this track works 100% for me --- literally takes 3 seconds with my baby! Here is the link: . I always have it read to play on my laptop or on the ipod in the bedroom. We bought the track on iTunes and it is my SAVIOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also the only thing to calm my baby down when she's crying. FAB FAB track.

• We go with the flow during the day but we do have a bed time routine which has really helped. We bathe her at 630pm, then feed her, burp her then put her down. In the first couple of days, it seemed that she'd stay asleep for a bit then fuss, and then wouldn't go back to sleep when I went up to soothe her. She seemed to want to feed every couple of hours. Then I got my partner to take over as I figured that she wouldn't be able to smell milk and it worked a treat. In my case at least, she didn't really want a feed but she could smell my milk and she'd want to snack or suckle. Now she sleeps 6.5 hours without needing a feed during the night so long as it's NOT me that goes up to soothe her if she fusses (which she rarely does now). This is also a great excuse for me to do nothing except put my feet up in the evening and have a cup of tea :)

• Finally, studies have shown that taking the baby out for fresh air during the day helps babies sleep better at night. Think this is something to do with helping them distinguish between day/night and the production of melatonin which is the hormone that signals the body to sleep at night. Sorry if I've got that wrong but I'm sure you'll be able to Google an article on this :)

Really hope you get more sleep soon. I'm sure it will get better soon and please do let us know how it goes!

x

Hi, dc3 is 10 wks, I am sooo feeling for you on the sleep front! From 3 wks to 8 wks he was up from 11pm to 5am and I have never been so tired in all my life. Our saviours (like Trixie says) are controversial on MN... Formula before bed and a dummy. Never used either on my two girls, but I was desperate and my life is now so much better.
I don't have a strict routine during the day, but after six weeks i tried to push feeds a bit further apart each time so that he wasn't grazing but getting a big full tummy each time. He now has a feed every 4 hrs or so and because he wakes at roughly the same time each day (8am) we are in a 8am, midday, 4pm, 8pm routine. He has breast then a bottle of formula at 7/8pm, goes down for the night and sleeps till 8am. I sometimes try and top him up at 11pm, but he is usually totally uninterested, so I just put him back down. This has only been happening for a week, so I am prepared for it all to go pearshaped soon, but at the moment it is bliss!
I was a bit worried that 4 feeds a day wS not enough but I have spoken to our doc, our health visitor and a friend who is a doc, and they all say that if he is putting on weight (he is, he is huge!) then it is completely fine. Apparently once they are over 11lbs they cN go for much longer in between feeds.
When he wasn't sleeping at night I assumed it was colic. After trying all the colic remedies we found Colief a few weeks ago and he started sleeping longer at night almost straight away. I first thought it was the Colief, but now I think it was just the formula in the bottle we were giving it to him in! I think he was just hungry... I think we could probably do without the formula if I was willing to do more feeding in the day, eg wake him up at 7 and have him on 3 hourly routine, but I have two other kids, getting them ready for school in the mornings is a pain and I love our current routine. I think formula in the evening just really settles in his tummy.
When he was screaming all night, the only thing that settled him apart from a breast, was a dummy. Swore I would never use one, but it was the only thing that worked. I used to have to lie in bed with his Moses basket beside me and keep putting the dummy back in every half hour when he lost it, but at least I was getting half hour snatches of sleep!
Sorry if this is garbled, i am iPhone typing while running around. I am also not trying to give you advice, I am a hopeless mother in every way, but seem to have struck it lucky with my kids sleep situation, they have all slept right through the night from 3 months, so just sharing what worked for us.
The only advice I feel is really useful is to keep an open mind and try everything! Baby-led, AP, GF, whatever works....
Hope it gets better soon. X

Ps a v flexible 4 hrly routine, he is feeding now because we are out to lunch!

hey pseu hope you're okay, cos you've not been back.
:)

DD's better now, so sleeping a bit better too - have you sorted it out?

Our LO became easier after we introduced some routine, and now brings herself back onto it when it slips. We'd recommend flexible routine (see The Baby Book: How to Enjoy Year One by Rachel Waddilove). It works for us.