how do I get this baby to SLEEP!!!!!!

[jorgesolatario]

Ok, I know there are countless countless threads about children who won't sleep so I apologise for starting another. But, I'm really on the edge at the moment, spoke to my HV today about how I think I may be starting with PND, so I'm really struggling to cope with this problem.

DS2 is nearly 16 weeks and ebf. As the evening goes on you can see that he is tired, and I can usually get him to go to sleep at around 7-7.30ish with a feed. But, this only lasts for 45 mins or so, as long as a nap in his cot in the day would be. I can't get him to resettle after this, and usually end up having to get him up after he, then I, get frustrated with me trying to rock / feed him back to sleep. He'll then be very happy and awake for maybe a another hour or so until he gets grumpy again. And this is where the problem really starts...

I take him to the dark bedroom and feed him. Usually he feed well, and will mostly fall asleep on me and I'll pop him in his cot. Othertimes he just wants to keep sucking and gets annoyed when I pull him from the boob though he's not feeding (so it's comfort, but he won't take a dummy). If I've managed to get him into his cot, he'll wake up after a few minutes crying. And we start again.

For the last few days he won't even settle next to me suckling, he pulls off the boob and gets annoyed. And then starts ages of me trying, taking him back into the (dim quiet) lounge, him waking up, getting grumpy, and we try again....

So, feeding to sleep, no
Rocking to sleep, no.

For the second night in a row DH has taken him out in the pram in the freezing cold. He'll probably fall asleep, and if we're lucky, he'll stay asleep so we can put him into his cot when he gets home, and then may sleep for about 15 mins then will wake up and we start again...

He'll probably finally go to sleep properly waaaaaaaay after 11. He then wakes up every hour but that is another story...

In the day he goes down relatively easily for his first nap in the morning. After that he usually needs to be in his pram for naps but will occasionally have a second nap there too.

So, can anyone give me any other ideas of how to get him to go to sleep???

DH came back, popped him into his cot asleep. He woke up a couple of mins later. I fed him back to sleep, he's just woken up again, ARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!

he may be havinhg a growth spurt and need to feed a lot. the more you feed the quicker your supply will adjust to his demands.

but it is quite normal for babies to cluster feed in the evenings. I would suggest just keeping him downstairs with you and feeding him on the sofa as and when he wants it.

16 weeks is really early for a baby to just go up to bed and stay there IMO, and you may find it less stressful to just go with it and feed him as much as he likes and then take hm up to bed when you go?

also, have you considered co-sleeping? we ended up doing that out of necessity with ds2 when he was little as he fed so often i would usually fall asleep feeding him and then wake up when he wanted his next feed. got a lot more sleep than I did when i was trying to get him into his cot

oh, Jorge, I do feel for you, it's so blardy hard. I am by NO means a sleep expert, but - two thoughts, either he's not tired yet (which you say he is) or he's overtired?

Could he be overtired? I remember DS getting grumpy and hard-to-put-to-bed around that age, and we started putting him to bed at 6pm, having tried 7pm and just working backwards until we hit the sweet spot. Then he needed a 6pm bedtime for the next year, more or less, and woke to BF around 11pm, 2pm and 4ish before getting up at 6 or 7am. So not ideal by any means, but at least a recognizable pattern.

Other suggestions: could he be teething? Only time my ds come off the boob and got cross some little teeth were moving around under his gums. YONKS before any appeared, but he was definitely suffering with it.

I hope someone more knowledgeable shows up to help you - it's SO hard being that t ired. GOod luck!

Thisisyesterday omission spot on imo. Save yourself the pain of trying for settling at a bedtime and keep him on you downstairs

*is spot on. Sorry.

I agree with thisisyesterday as well. Very good advice there.

Milk supply is usually naturally lower in the evening (make sure you are eating/drinking enough in the daytime as this helps) could explain why hes more settled in the daytime. I used to have to express leftover milk from the morning feed to boost my supply and use it to top up dd in the evening. Also agree possible growth spurt - could also try formula top up if your not anti-formula! Take care of yourself x

I'm of the opinion, based on my experience of my 4.5 month son, that the small catnaps he'll get if I persist with trying to get him to sleep over the course of the evening are counter-productive.

He often has a 40 or so min sleep at around 7pm and then is up for longer. If he's giggling at me in his cot, there's no point in keeping him in there. He often watches us eating our tea and goes to bed around 10pm again. It's not ideal, but keeping him in a dimly-lit room and persisting with trying to get him to sleep was stressful.

Three things for you to think about: does your baby, like mine, have 2 high points of alertness per day: one in the morning and one in late afternoon/early evening? I eventually realised that my son could go no more than 3hours in the morning before needing to go to sleep. This is his pattern in the evening too, I realised. The most important factor, it appears, in what time he goes back to sleep is what time he wakes up at around 5/6pm. The catnaps appear to prolong things. Keep a diary of his times throughout the day and see if you can find a pattern. This will help you to predict him better in the evenings.

The second thing is this: how are you deciding when he's tired? For a long time, I thought it was when my baby rubbed his eyes and became fussy. But it's not - it's when he tries to nuzzle in to my chest when I'm holding him. But yes, sometimes he just wants to sleep for a bit and go down properly later.

Thirdly, you need to work on his ability to self-settle. If you search for my other recent posts, you should find my description to someone else of what this involved for us.

X

I found our DS was a sucky baby. He liked feeding and would go all the time if he could. Our girls hated dummies but he would only settle with one - he dropped it himself at prob 4 or 5 months but only because he had discovered his thumb! He is still a thumb sucker when he is tired or upset and is now 5.

Thanks. Thisis thing is he's not feeding. He's actually getting quite frustrated on the boob (and there is still milk in there!). I feel pretty useless atm, and even more useless when feeding him isn't the answer. I know this classic growth spurt time, I remember it well with DS1 . But if he actually went down and then woke every hour through the evening I think I'd be able to cope. But I can just see he's shattered poor thing.

Re: cosleeping, I'm afraid I just can't sleep with DS in bed with me! I've done it done it for a short while in the very early days but I find it very uncomfortable and decided that I'd rather deal with all the wakings. But, if it gets too much in the middle of the night then I do bring him into bed and leave him there.

currents I really do think he's overtired! Ive been trying to sort out daytime naps too and thats been tricky, no natural pattern has emerged just yet. The HV suggested trying to stretch out his daytime feeds as he has a tendency to "snack".
I'll take your advice and tomorrow I'll try and put him down at 6 and see what happens. I've tried 6.30 and that didn't work so I'll start earlier and see how it goes.

He;s now asleep in his bouncer in the lounge in front of me, sigh...

Yep, also agree with thisis. It's maybe just a little early to be expecting him to go to bed and stay there. Biologically babies are not really expected to 'sleep through' for the first year although I appreciate some do to varying degrees.

It's probably more stressful going up and down to get him when he wakes.

Just get cosy on the sofa and feed on demand and let him nap on you/ dh. They have many growth spurts in the first year.

My ds was like this, he spent a lot of evenings downstairs with us. He was a terrible sleeper for a while but eventually, in stages we got him to fall asleep and stay asleep without any extra help

Not sure about your hv advising to space feed out thats not really how Breastfeeding is designed to work. Bf babies are supposed to snack, sometimes they want a little drink and sometimes a meal. Perfectly normal.

What's he like when he wakes, is he easily comforted? Does he seem distressed at all?

I feel your pain, I had this for the whole of December, it turned out he was teething. I know all babies are different but this is what I did. I make sure he has carpol, nelsons granules and teething gel before I put him to bed. I give him a bottle of formula at 6pm (other than this he is ebf) and started a bath, feed, sleep regimen. If he doesn't go straight to sleep I use my exercise ball and bounce on that with him, this usually works. I hope this helps and it does get better. Good luck.

My dd is 20 weeks and we have had similar issues (well not quite as bad tbh but still a real pain trying to convince her to sleep in the cot!)
I realised the main problem was my expectations - my friends all have perfect babies who go to bed at 7pm and sleep through, I have just about accepted that dd is not one of those babies! Bedtime for her is now about 9pm, as I was so fed up of trying and failing to get her down earlier. She will sleep in the cot for an hour or two, then will wake to feed. If I can be bothered I will try and get her back to sleep in the cot, more often than not we co sleep from then on, as otherwise she will wake every hour or so, and take ages to get nack to sleep. I didn't want to co sleep, it's really not for me, but dd sleeps so much better that it's the only workable solution for now.

I download a cd from iTunes of white noise for babies - I play it as I give her a last feed and it is like magic. Leave it playing until deep sleep.

Also nurse her through the evening on my lap until I go to bed about 10.30 / 11. She will often sleep for a couple of hours during the evening - I either put her in the moses basket in the front room or keep her on my lap,( she is 16weeks now),

Had to co sleep for first three months but now have her in a crib on the bed next to me.

I was given the Gina Ford book before my son was born. I must admit I was sceptical, but for us, it worked.
From 6 weeks old he was going to bed at 7pm, woke him at 10pm for feeding, then he woke at around 3/4am, up around 7.30/8am.
I haven't gone with the routine by the book as it can be very strict.
Our son is 6 months next week, he has not been demand fed since 3 weeks old when I started the routine.
He is such a happy baby, only waking up once overnight for a feed between 7pm-8am from around 3 months, and the night before Xmas eve, he's slept all the way :) I haven't fed him in the night since around mid Dec.
We have had the odd few nights where I've slept on the nursery floor around 3 months (in his room at 3 weeks as we kept waking him, him waking us) but that's it.
It's just an option, but it definitely worked for us, and will be using it on the next one!!!

My dd is 27 weeks and is my second dc. The first did nothing like this - he would feed and go to sleep around 6pm from 3 weeks old. My dd did what yours is doing and it was tough... But I gave in and just fed and fed and fed her and usually the bedtime feed took 1.5 hours and she went to bed late. Over time it just got earlier and by five months it was taking far less time and she was going down... She however, always wakes in the evening and now all night but I do sympathise. Having had two very different babies I can reassure you that some babies do this and they grow out of it!

I used to take her into the dark to get her sleepy and then bring her back (still feeding) to eat my dinner and then take her back when I had watched enough tv (all the time feeding and feeding). If I took her off before her 1.5 hour she would wake up.

So I reckon you maybe have another month. Good luck...