Early weaning... Help pls!!

[Mjtay]

I'm new on here, so please bare with me! Haven't figured out all ur abbreviations yet! Haha. My little girl 19 weeks old started to breast feed every 2 hours again. I live in the back and beyond so was making getting out and about a nightmare! So I decided to start moving her over to formula, in which she goes 4 hours. But she had started to refuse the bottle. Dunno if it's the comfort she's craving!!? So last 3 days I've started giving her baby rice, and she absolutely loves it!! Never turns away!! And just keeps opening her mouth for more!! But after a bit of research in here this eve I understand this isn't the greatest thing for her!! I don't know now whether to try re establishing bf or keep on with rice now I've started, cos she goes longer between feeds with that!! Pls help. Feeling a little lost and cruel!!

Thank u all in advance!! X

Of course you're not cruel, you're doing the best you can for your baby, just like we all are!

If your dd (that's darling daughter in mumsnet-speak!) starting feeding every 2 hours again, it was probably because she's having a growth spurt so needs extra nutrition. IT's happened with my dd a number of times, I find it best just to weather the extra feeds for a while until it gets back to normal.

19 weeks isn't ideal for weaning, current advice is to wait until 6 months, but it's not uncommon either (it's past the absolute minimum of 17 weeks). One problem is that milk (breastmilk or formula) has a lot more calories in than baby rice, so the baby rice will make your dd feel full but not give her as much nutrition.

The current NHS advice about weaning is here.

There are signs if your baby is ready to wean, she needs to be able to hold her head up, sit well, gained a healthy weight (some people say doubled their birth weight), make chewing motions well enough to move food around their mouth, and is showing an interest it what you're eating (such as watching, trying to touch). If your dd isn't meeting all these I'd be inclined to go back to giving just milk until she is.

Can you speak to your hv (health visitor) for some advice specific to your dd?

Oh, and if you're ever stuck on the acronyms or abbreviations, there's a page here to explain them. Welcome to mumsnet!

I think if you want to re-establish BF then you should be able to.

Lots of skin to skin contact with your dd, let her feed at every whimper, expressing inbetween if you can, a warm bath together with your dd and cut down on the amount of formula feeds you give her.

If you need help, the breast and bottle feeding page on here is fab and lots of knowledgable people there to guide you.

Oh and welcome.

Oh sorry, and it's perfectly normal for babies to start frequent feeding again at a few stages throughout baby hood.

It's all down to growth spurts and they feed more so your supply keeps up with their growth. It all settles back down again eventually.

You just have to go with the flow.

Good Luck.

Yes, I remember DD doing that too, and a pushy relative insisting I started food. Breast milk / formula milk has more calories than baby rice and is a complete meal. I think I also found DD got interested in stuff around then and wouldn't concentrate on the breast feed so would feed more often for less time. Try feeding more in a quite spot, or at night. Or just go with it, it's just a phase.

Thank u all for ur helpful comments!! I will defo cut back on the rice for the time being then. As I've been topping her up with that after she's spat her bottle out after having 40-100ml and crying full pelt. As I way of stopping putting her to the breast. But obviously if that's gonna hinder her nutrition then no way!!! The second part of it is the bf! I've never managed to get her to go over 3 hours anyways, while with formula I can guarantee my timings if she's had a full bottle. I really didn't want to stop bf altogether, but just give me a little freedom! She has always taken the odd bottle since she was diddy be it formula or expresses milk! I don't know why she's objecting so much!!! She cries if I try put the bottle in her mouth again, and of course if she's still hungry. There's nothing I can do with her till I latch her on!!!! I've only gradually dropped a feed a week and had got to 3 bottles. One at the 11 feed, 3 and late evening 10ish. Then she would go thro. Bf I was doing 2 night feeds again. I breast fed tonite and am currently on a night feed. I really don't mind one, but when it slipped back to 2, I was dead!! Lol!! Sorry I'm waffling!!! Has anybody had this happen or got any advice!? I changed to a fastflow teat today to see if it was frustration, but made no difference other then getting a little more down DD (check me out!! ;) ) a bit quicker before she stops for a breather/wind and then objects!! Just to add quickly that she does tho on the odd feed drain a bottle without a fuss!! Thanks peeps x x

I think the thing is you can't guarantee your baby will go through or longer even with formula - often they start off doing this but then lapse back into shorter spells. This time WILL pass - it feels like it never will but it really, truly will pass.
I wonder if you can go back to more breast, (with some bottle too if you want) since that's obviously what she seems to be indicating she wants... and instead think about coping strategies in between times.
are you getting enough sleep? (in my book that's about 4 hours, reckon i could be almost normal on a 4 hour night, any less and i was a mess, and more and i was a Serene Thing )
are you eating enough?
also re bottle feeding - there is actually a method to feeding babies with a bottle, i'll dig it out. it minimises overfeeding (they can't always pull away like they can with the breast) and discomfort. will dig it out

here's the link to how to bottle feed

Awwww thank u mummyelk! I would say I am sleeping well. Normally only up and hour at night and she goes back down till 7.30/8. Eating enough.... Prob not :( this is going to sound so selfish, but I've Bern doing home hairdressing since she was 4 1/2 weeks old as this allows me to be able to take more time off work with her in the long run. I would of had to be back at work by niw otherwise. So constantly feeding is a mission, and some of my clients can be up to an hour away. So with all my rushing around, I'm sorry to say I nearly daily don't eat or drink much  x x

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Baby rice & BM has DOUBLE the calories of BM alone.

how the Jeff do you think adding a substance that is 85% carbs is going to reduce the calorific value of anything?

and there is absolutely no harm in introducing solids after 17 weeks.

if it helps with constant feeding, then why the hell not?

why do people keep on repeating that without engaging brain?

here, seekellymom note they have added water (FFS) instead of BM to make the calorie value of 28 per ounce ...using BM instead you get nearly double.

so no OP, giving your baby baby rice mixed with either formula or Breast milk is not going to hinder nutrition at all.

Thanks for this post OP as am starting from tonight to give DS a bit of rice with bm before dream feed as he keeps waking for more food, feel he will get a better bf at 3am if he has not drained me at 1am and might sleep better from 3 onwards.

Thanks for the link mummyelk. Had 2 successful bottle feeds today :) and am now going out with the girls and leaving hubby to it! She should go 4 hours anyways, so hopefully bf when I get home. Good luck candr!! It defo world for that, but I think I may of confused DD by introducing too much in one go!! Yep 2 night feeds is a touch much hey! And know what u mean bout feeding better!! Let me know how u get on!! :) x x

EAP both the NHS and WHO recommend not introducing solids until 6 months, I don't think it's very responsible to say there's no problem with weaning from 17 weeks. Look at the NHS website here.

Yes, I know many people who weaned before 6 months and who's babies are fine (the advice is fairly new so and previous generations generally weaned earlier), but it has associated risks and those babies may just have been lucky.

it is true to say there is no problem in introducing solids after 17 weeks In This Country though.

if you read that advice properly, you'd know that too.

i am appealing to hard evidence, not anecdote.

search ''British dietetic association weaning advice' if you are interested. it is part 3.4 you should read.

Ummm, I have read the advice. It is also the advice given by hv and other professionals. I see you believe you know better. Perhaps we'd better agree to differ on this one.

I do know better! my HV also said 'some time between 17weeks and 26'

x-post. I'll check it out.

not that we have much time for HV advice on this forum :) though we have been through this argument many, many times before here, and it is simply true to say there is no evidence of harm in weaning after 17 weeks in the UK.

in actual fact the average weaning age is still about 13 weeks i believe...

Pardon my flamey-ness op anyway, i had a bit of a moment

If you want more freedom, leave weaning as close to 6 months as you can. Starting early and having to puree everything is loads of effort and faf that you don't have to do if you wait until your baby is close to 6 months when they can just feed themselves and have mashed food. You will also have to plan more carefully where you go - do they have a decent high chair, have to take food for the baby with you, and plan your trips out around their meal times. Of course you do that anyway later, but why drag out the process? And don't think that weaning means sleeping better. It can also make it worse, you just don't know how your LO will react. While it does no harm to wean at 19 weeks, you are honestly not making it any easier for yourself if that is your reason for doing it. And I completely sympathize with not being able to get out and about. My LO doesn't sleep well, no more than 3 hours in a block, and has to be bf to sleep. I haven't left him for more than 3 hours in 8 months. I sometimes think I should have formula fed, but that wasn't what was best for him in terms of health or the fact it saves money so I can be with him longer. But it would be soooo nice to have a day off!

Because you can speak for the views of a whole forum EAP? I am part of this forum and I don't agree.

I've read your doc, but I'm sceptical that the evidence can be as irrefutable as it says and the NHS is choosing to ignore it.

But as I said before, lets agree to differ on this.

There is a really good review of the evidence here including research paper citations for those who'd like to follow them up. It is from 2008, so there are a few more recent studies to add. However, the advice has not changed since.

Useful points it makes:

"The results of a large randomised trial in Belarus (Kramer et al, 2002) confirmed that exclusive breastfeeding for six months considerably reduces the risk of gastrointestinal infection."

"One randomised study in the US (Mehta et al, 1998) found that when solid food replaced formula, there was no net increase in energy intake, regardless of when solids were introduced, at three months or six months. There is no growth advantage in starting solids early or at six months. A further randomised study in California concluded that solid food given before 6 months of age generally replace the milk source among breastfed infants but not amongst those infants receiving infant formula milk (Heinig et al, 1993)." i.e. in breastfed babies, the baby will regulate its calorie intake by taking less milk throughout the day/night if solids are introduced, so no point in thinking you are upping their intake by giving foods higher in caloires than breastmilk.

"Reviews of the literature on three aspects of the developmental readiness of babies for solid foods with respect to physiological maturing were published in April 2001 (Wellstart, 2001). These aspects were development of the baby?s immune system, maturation of the gastrointestinal tract and oral development in relation to coping with the transition from a purely liquid diet to semi-solid and solid foods... The expert review team concluded that although there is a great deal that is still not known, most full term babies are probably ready to start solids near six months or perhaps a little beyond."

"It is common for mothers to believe that giving solid foods will help their baby to sleep longer at night. Heinig et al (1993) reported virtually identical sleeping times (729 versus 728 min/day)."