DH and I continually clash over our DS- Help!

[cheekymonk]

Morning all! I doubt this is unusual but I feel it is now very out of hand in our household. DH was in Navy when I had DS (now aged 7) so I got used to doing things alone. DH left navy 1.5 years ago. We now have dd too aged 11 months. DS has always been challenging. He is very bright and sensitive. I admit I can be too lenient sometimes but dH is just so hard all of the time. Examples-
Making walk in his pyjamas at 9pm at night to cool down
Making him do star jumps on the spot as punishment
Last week DH took DS swimming. Now DS really didn't want to go. he is bored of it but I managed to get round him the week before and me and DS had some lovely quality time. Last week however, DS woke up dd just as he left for swimming. They came home 1 hour later. DS had not been swimming. He got into the door but then DH dragged him away as he refused to go. Instead DH made him run round field. DS told me last night it scared him because he thought DH was going to push him over. Added to all this DS says his hearing his not right so I have GP appt booked. I wonder if swimming has caused something so am actually not too worried about him missing it but I am worried about what might be wrong and I read that hearing problems can cause irritability which would explain alot. DS is very bad tempered and moody. I know Dh loves our children but his approach is so army like almost and he is very slow to give them praise and reassurance. He always says I come first which I have trouble with. The children come first no question and I am considering asking DH to get less involved as I am worried he is doing emotional damage to DS. I am aware our inconsistency and different approaches are really destructive too but I just cannot and will not stand by how my DH does things. It is causing us so many arguments and DH has been away this weeHe works away with new job too!) and I must admit i have found life so much easier! There have been hardly any arguments and tantrums and it is a much more harmonious house. I just want a happy functional family.
Any advice/experience?

I agree with the bully bit. I am aware it is not right hence me wanting DH to back off completely.
What do you suggest I do? Report him? Leave him?

Have you looked into maybe family therapy? Agree its difficult sit and he sounds like a bully but not sure I would call it abuse. Was he parented in this way? We learn it from our own parents so if they were like that it#ll be hard for him to express his love for the kids in another way than "tough" love, prob in his eyes he's doing these things out of misplaced love thinking its for his good. Sounds like he doesn't know any other way to do it. Iwould sit him down and tell him that you need to be a united front with the kids but his way is too extreme, maybe give a bit and say you may be a bit too lenient and try to work out a plan of how to go forward. Explain that you can't go on the way things are. That is if you want to save your marriage. I don't mean that in a profit of doom way, I just mean, if you don't love him and you feel it's over anyway you could just walk away, but I think it's worth having a clear sighted talk, discussing therapy before you burn any bridges.

Thanks Trebuchet. I do love him and don't see the marriage as over but am concerned that how he is with ds is damaging both ds and my own feelings for him. I think less of him if i am honest and I think ds picks up on that as he can be disrespectful to DH. He did have a strict upbringing whereas in mine the word no was virtually unknown! I do try to talk dh but he is not easy to talk to, especially if he feels I am criticising. Yes I have thought family therapy may be the way forward.

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i agree with the poster who said your husband is a child abuser.

no child should be treated like that, why the fuck are you letting him?

You need to sort this out because there's the risk that as DS gets older he'll wonder why you didn't.
Perhaps try talking at a time when you're both calm - discuss a particular example and ask why he took that approach and your feelings. If you can keep things calmer, tell your dh how you do it etc.

It sounds awful for your DS and clearly isn't working!

The way he is treating your child is damaging. Very damaging.

Unless he voluntarily stops, what are you going to do? Clearly you asking him (clashes) has not achieved a change in your husband's behaviour. It seems he is making it clear that he won't change this behaviour.

I love how it is all my fault! I do intervene, obviously I couldn't with the swimming.
I am asking what I should do. I KNOW I need to do something.

Not making this your fault, OP. Just your responsibility.

You cannot change his behaviour. Only your own. What you have tried so far hasn't worked. What's left?

Family therapy.

You need to all work it out together.

He probably thinks he is doing things for the best, as you say, it sounds very army-ish. I wouldn't call it abuse.

Playing devil's advocate but is it possible that he genuinely doesn't know how to raise children?

Would your dh go on a parenting course or read books so he can learn things like how to discipline children? My children are physical and wouldn't see star jumps and push ups as a punishment.

Would second the family therapy suggestion. Your DH may genuinely think he is doing a positive thing in setting boundaries/consequences and this is his way of trying to change your DHs behaviour. It isnt the same as hitting/punching him because he has lost his temper, but it doesn't make it right.

Perhaps a therapist would look to understand why he thinks this is appropriate. You mention that the word 'no' was unknown in your house - this is probably also inappropriate and you need to work together to develop a new model where boundaries and the word 'no' are present - but star jumps aren't.

If your DH is generally a reasonable man could you sit down with him and explain how you feel about it all? It's possible that your DH doesn't feel much of a bond with your DS given that he was away so much when he was little and so is a bit at a loss at to how to deal with him. If you do chat to your DH about it and he doesn't accept what you say then you may have to consider leaving, simply to protect your children. Allowing abuse to continue isn't acceptable, no matter what the reason. Perhaps you could decide on where your limits lie, and work out appropriate punishments for different behaviours, then stick to that come hell or high water? It might even help to write it out on a chart and stick it up on the wall.

My view on things is that a parent is there to guide their children, not to beat them into submission. Children misbehave, it's all part of testing limits and understanding where boundaries lie. Calm, proportionate discipline is the only acceptable way to control behaviour, anything beyond that is abuse. At the end of it all, the parent is the one person in the entire world that the child looks to for love and reassurance. If all they get is over-reaction, criticism and fear then where does the child turn? They are left with a huge gaping hole in their life where that love and reassurance should be.

Hi, sorry to hear your troubles. Can you have a talk with DH at a time when you are both mellow and calm. See if you can find some compromises. Perhaps he needs to hear from you that you know you are too lenient, then perhaps he'll admit at times he's too harsh.

From there, you may be able to agree some ground rules for DS. Anything from bed times, table manners etc - which you BOTH agree on and then decided together what suitable discipline would be. i.e. if he does "this", then "this" happens - doesn't matter which parent is around.

Perhaps your DH needs help thinking of some other "punishments" other than star jumps etc. My husband is in the forces and I sometimes have to remind him that me and DD aren't one of his men!

I obviously don't agree with DH behaviour, but if you can try and think yourself into his head - i.e his frustration at DS behaviour - sounds like he has this idea that physical exertion can overcome bad behaviour.

Lastly, I think you should also get DS to be respectful to his father - try small steps at a time if nothing else.

Agree with Hullygully

He is treating DS like a soldier, in addition to family therapy is there some kind of parenting course you could encourage him to do? would he be open to therapy/courses etc?

Thank you for last few constructive comments. I think DH dos feel pushed out because ds and I do have a good relationship. I do say no and I find ds takes it a bit better if I explain why. I am not one of those 'because I say so' types of parent. Dh is much softer with dd, not sure if it is because she is a baby or she is a girl. Dh comes from a family where noone talks about their feelings and to do so is seen as a bit weak. I have been on numerous parenting courses, got books etc but dh won't. He did come along to one once but he seems insulted at the idea of being told what to do. He even teases me for trying to do things 'by the book' because I often rely on books/internet to help guide my parenting. DS has been more aggressive since having dd and so I got school nurse involved who gave me some fantastic tips, eg. filling pasta jar for good behaviour and reward when full. A strike system for undesirable behaviour. DH dislikes the strike system, saying that when he hits dd it should be automatic banning of compter (ds main pleasure ) he dislikes the giving of 3 strikes before something is banned. Before though we had situations where almost everything was banned and it was just silly! I think DH can lack the endless patience that parenting needs. DH thinks DS should just beave end of. DH is very obedient in character whereas I was naughty as a child and can understand my ds's rebelliousness. I agree with what you say CailinDana. I know how shame made me feel as a child and also i was aware that my Dad loved my Mum more than us kids. Kids feel everything which is why I am so determined to get this sorted. DS feels DH doesn't love him and has said so. I think DH does but does not always show it.
I will try a more serious talk with DH that doesn't result in an argument. DH has said that you have to break ds down for him to take notice and stop being so bloody naughty. I know how awful this sounds but I have known Dh smack ds and ds wiggle his bum and egg him on to do it again- proving how useless and ineffective it is.

Trouble is the parenting courses here aren't brilliant but they would be a starting point...

I agree with Hully. I have nothing to add re DH, I think it's been covered.

Can I ask a bit more about your son? You describe him as "very bad tempered and moody", and that he has "always been challenging. He is very bright and sensitive.". Was he always bad tempered and moody, or is that more recent? Your DH was mostly away until DS was 5-ish, so he was used to just him and "too lenient sometimes" you; now he has his dad and a baby sister in the house too. That's a big change to his life.

I'm a bit fuzzy regarding the swimming/ears. Did DS complain of hearing problems after swimming, or was there something else that makes you blame the swimming?

To be honest, I think you are going to have a real struggle on your hands.

Dh has been brought up not to talk about feelings, and he has been in the army. It is going to be enormously hard for him to look objectively at himself with any kind of self-reflection, and decide to change. His whole life has trained him NOT to do that and to see it as "soft."

Ironically, he needs to do what he talks of ds as needing: break himself down and then start building himself up again in a whole new way.

It's not to say it's completely impossible, but it is going to be very hard.

Good luck!

Whereyouleftit, he has always been a bit fiery but is much more so since having dd. All last summer he refused to go to bed , was having nightmares. It took a great deal of patience and reassurance to get him back on an even keel and both dh and I dealt with it badly at times. I shouted alot and over restrained (held him/tried to drag him off sofa to bed) him a couple of times. Since then, I now go in another room or whatever as I don't want to cross the line again. I know how it feels to feel powerless and frustrated as nothing you do works but with ds gentle coaxing and time works, not shouting, orders and heavy handedness. With DS it can take hours to get to root of the problem. He feels easily annoyed which he admits and like he is the worst kid in the world (dh and I have never said this but I have said he can make me feel like the worst mother in the world which is where it comes from :( )
Ds has been swimming for ages but has said that since the start of Yr 2 he has had trouble hearing sometimes. He only told me this at xmas. The only noticeable sign is he has the tv on quite loud and sits closely to it. I just wondered if the swimming maybe related.
I totally agree hullygully! Thanks for all the advice and support everyone. I am trying to be honest to sort things out.

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Poor you i do feel for you, my DH is also forces and can be hard on our 7 yr old, we too have an 11 month DD, i have accused him in the past of not having a heart and having no emotions, that is army training though i think. Many , many times i have intervened and said that our DS is not some army cadet he is a little boy and him treating him like that is not going to make DS respect him. Over time DH has seen that my way of dealing with bad behaviour works, i.e talking, explaining and also taking things away if necassary works better and more quickly that any kind of shouting.
They both have a passion for football and that has been the biggest thing which has pulled them together as they can talk about it and play it with each other .Is there anything that both your DH and DS have some common ground in?? Even if its computer games just so that they have something to chat about and it can be the "lads time" without girls or something so it could bond them together a bit more??
DH and DS have a realtionship now that tugs at my heart strings as they idolise each other .

I guess i am saying that if your DH will LISTEN to what you are saying and get help to change his ways, then there is hope for your little boy and his dadddy to have a good relationship in the future.

Thank you sam26oscar, lovely to hear from someone in almost identical circs! Thank you, your post is so hopeful. I will have a think. Ds also loves football but dh not so much. Computer is a big yes however! Will have a think...