DS (3) says he doesn't like DP

[threeleftfeet]

Well I think DS probably does like DP, but he tells him, often "I don't like you, I want mummy!" "I don't like you daddy, I don't like you at all, I want mummy"

We'd heard from friends that their little ones had been like this and had grown out of it, and had assumed the same, but the older DS gets, the more eloquent he is at saying it.

DP had said he didn't take if personally and knew he'd grow out of it, but he let slip today that it does really hurt him (and I don't blame him, it would upset me too!)

When DS says stuff like that we don't make a fuss about it. Sometimes DP might say "well I like you" in a nice way. Or we continue as if he hasn't said it. (we thought making a big deal out of it might encourage him!)

I have some ideas about why DS feels like this, but before I start with the attempt at analysing this, I wonder if any of you have had a similar experience, what happened? Is there anything we can do to improve this situation for DS and DP?

My DD was like that (and dd2 is starting!), she grew out of it around 3 1/2-4 yrs.
I was sahp and he was working, so as soon as he came home I didn't exist for her! I couldn't go near her, put her shoes on or anything.
If he came home from work then had to pop out she would throw herself at the front door and sit there crying, and wouldn't let me console her ('I don't want you I want daddyy!).

I reckon it was because I made her do all the boring things, getting dressed, washing, playing on her own while I cleaned up.

As soon as he came home the lego would come out etc. It did hurt me, but I tried not to let it show.

Now she's almost 5 and turning in to a mummy's girl!!!

that age is all about power - exploring it, working out who has it and how to get it, pushing boundaries to see where they are and try to exert control etc. to say that a 3yo doesn't know that playing parents off against each other is powerful or hurtful is a mistake. i also think the child is usually looking for the boundary, wants the boundary to feel secure on some level. by not responding and putting in a boundary it is also failing the child in a sense imo.

i find it hard to understand how this has gone on for 'ages' without being discussed with the child or ever being corrected as an unkind thing to do and say - unless you have some concerns about the father or are using this preference to bolster your sense of guilt or something about not being there so much?

the fact he does it when you are both together means he knows he can get away with it and to me suggests that it is you who needs to change/deal with this and think about how you respond to it. he is exhibiting more difficult behaviour and being hurtful towards his father in your presence - he has picked up that this is allowed and ok. you need to start making clear that it is not ok. unless you have concerns that the child has some valid reason for rejecting his father i really don't get why you haven't instinctively pulled together with your partner as the 'adults' to be a united front and support each other.

"i find it hard to understand how this has gone on for 'ages' without being discussed with the child or ever being corrected as an unkind thing to do and say -"

It has been discussed; DP and I have discussed it many times, and we have discussed it with friends in RL who have older children. They said their DS did it too, and not to worry, he would grow out of it.

So we had been not making a fuss of it as we thought it was just a stage he was going through.

DP said he didn't take it personally.

DS has been told not to say this, and that it's unkind, but not consistently in the way I do with some of the other things he does which I don't want him to do.

What's changed is that it has become apparent that approach is not working. He's not growing out of it, he's doing it more! Also DP has admitted it does hurt his feelings now.

"I disagree with Bertie that you have to accept all "feelings" and try to explore them. "

I think you misunderstand this approach.

You can accept someone's feelings and explore them, while at the same time explaining that their behaviour is unacceptable.

I think it's quite damaging actually to decide a 3 year old is "rude, manipulative and attention seeking" for example, rather than trying to work out why they're acting as they do. (That's not instead of trying to correct their behaviour, it's part of it).

As you've brought it let's take racism as an example. If my 3 year old displayed racist behaviour, of course I would make sure he understood in no uncertain terms that that was unacceptable. However there's no way I'd leave it there, and decide that DS was inherently racist! (or manipulative / attention seeking / whatever). Children are not born racist. Racism is learnt behaviour. Especially in a situation as extreme as this I'd want to try to explore what was going on in his head and where this was coming from. Just telling him off would not be enough!

justonemorejingle that gives me hope there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Yeah, in that racism scenario (which sounds totally bizarre and unlike anything a toddler might say) - but say for example you happened to live in a very monocultural place, a small village perhaps, and then one day you went to the nearest local town and your child looked at a black person and said "I don't like him, mummy" - then it's pointless just to dismiss that and say "That's a horrible thing to say and I don't want to ever hear you say it again" - that's not dealing with the underlying issue, that they've noticed something different about a person and it frightens them or whatever. You're not going to make that feeling go away by forbidding them from talking about it. It would be more productive in this situation to explain that just because somebody looks different it doesn't mean they're not the same inside, and that everybody looks different anyway, choose some other example of difference they are more familiar with, etc.

But as I said, I think it is unlikely. Children tend to be curious rather than fearful in my experience.

but nobody said he was those things, they said his behaviour in this situation has elements of those things.

in your example racism is learned and in your situation ds has learned it's ok to say mean things to and about daddy, it's ok to behave worse when mummy is here etc. you have to work out where he learned that from (not rocket science) and how to change that and correct that learning.

Tiny,

Well, you have your view and only want to hear from people in accord with it. I have mine and, touch wood, to date, it has worked with our son.

I at no point said he was rude, manipulative or attention seeking but that his behaviour was. That is a HUGE distinction, in my mind. If my son hits his brother he is being violent, disrespectful and very naughty and I will strongly correct him. It does not mean that is my overall opinion of him or I love him any the less.

Children are no more the paragons of virtue that it seems fashionable to think of them these days (especially on MN) than the wild, evil creatures that the Victorians perceived them to be. It is up to parents to actively discourage bad behaviour and encourage good behaviour. Of course feelings can be explored but, after the initial discussion, a continuation of a bad behaviour can no longer be tolerated. At that point it is merely a matter of reinforcement of a strong message.

Tiny I mostly agree with the 'growing out of it' side however I should add, even though we didn't make an Issue out of it, I would often say 'mummy loves you very much and it's not nice to talk to me like that'.
It was nice to hear dh sticking up for me too. But we did not tell her off sternly.

exactly. when people are saying that their children 'grew out of it' i don't think they mean by magic i think they mean with time and encouragement/guidance etc. glad to hear your partner supported you justone.

DS is like this with DH a lot. I think part of it is DH works a lot and is quite a strong disciplinarian so if he gets home each evening and the children are playing up before bed (fairly normal occurence) he tells them off almost as soon as he walks through the door (he gets in at 7.30). I also think in the early years children tend to be very attached to their mothers. I read Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph which says boys in particular are very attached to their mother until they are 6 and then they want a more male influence so become more attached to their father.

Does your DH have something that just he and DS do alone? DS (5) likes to play Toy Story on the PS3 and I hate that sort of stuff but DH is good at it so they play it together for an hour or so on a Sunday afternoon while I tidy up. They also have a big remote control truck that we take to the woods and DH shows the DC how to use it. I think it is important that your DH have some time with DS when you are not around and they can do something together that they both like. They need to find something in common. DS still sometimes doesn't like DH but I always tell him it is unkind and it upsets Daddy if he does say it.