Am I expecting too much of my 7yo?

[Aranea]

I've just spent the whole evening being cross with dd1, and now I am wondering whether the tactlessness and lack of manners that has so enraged me is just normal 7yo behaviour. I don't know whether I'm expecting too much. She's gone to bed now feeling very contrite and asking why I tell her off if I do really love her, which made me feel a bit guilty.

I was already a bit irritable as she was refusing to share her leftover snack with dd2, was being a bit whiny, and forgot that she was supposed to ask to leave the table with the result that dd2 stopped eating and followed her. But the real flashpoints were:

I'd baked a cake. She took a bite and said, ''well for one thing, it's burnt." It later turned out that she'd meant this as a positive comment, as she actually likes it a bit burnt, but it made me cross and she couldn't seem to understand why.

Then later on I was having to shower something out of dd2's hair (don't ask...) resulting in a miserable small person howling in the bathtub, and dd1 stood there watching and laughing. So I saw red and sent her out of the bathroom. But it turned out that she hadn't been laughing at dd2 at all, in fact she had hurt herself and was laughing in an attempt to cheer herself up.

So then I was trying to explain that if someone was watching a terrible thing happening to somebody else and laughing, other people would assume that they were laughing at what they were seeing. Dd1 found it very hard to imagine what other people might think in that situation, and then went on to say, 'anyway mummy, you said it was a terrible thing that was happening to dd2, and it wasn't, you were wrong...' - so then I got cross that she was being argumentative and nitpicking. But it turned out that she had meant to be helpful and cheer dd2 up by making her feel it had been less of a dreadful ordeal. I just could not make her see that her comment came across as argumentative rather than helpful.

Sorry this is rather long, but do you think I am expecting too much of her? I think I made her feel shit, which maybe isn't so awful if my expectations aren't too high, but if I am expecting too much then have I been mean?

From her responses she sounds quite precocious (sp?) so I don't think you are expecting too much of her.

Do you think her social clumsiness is normal? I do worry sometimes about that side of her. She is very sweet natured and undemanding, very verbally advanced but socially not smart.

Normal, but by that I mean normally annoying. I don't think your expectations are too high. Yes, this sounds normal for a 7-y-o, but no I don't think you should accept it, as otherwise how will she learn any better?

If she does the 'why do you tell me off' bit again, obviously just tell her that only people who really care about her love her enough to tell her off.

Her 'explanations' sound made up on the spot to get you off her back, she is very creative and articulate!

Does she have quite bossy friends? I wonder if she is exercising her own bossiness on you if her friends tend to take the lead.

You haven't been intentionally mean, but my DD (7yo) is considered to be emotionally quite mature and I do often have to explain situations to her like those you have described.

From what you say they are quite subtle nuances that as adults we would be expected to understand, but not IMO children, who ordinarily are quite self focused anyway.

But go easy on yourself - you used the words "cross, guilty, irritable" to describe your feelings which probably made the evening a bit more stressful for you.

She sounds like my 7 year old , maybe its just a 7 year old thing, i often have tobite my lip and ignore some of the things dd1 comes out with (to stop myself getting too angry), she has a answer for everything and nothing is ever her fault.

I agree with Joan. I can very often catch my 7yo dd1 being similarly mean to dd2. It's normal but doesn't mean you shouldn't pull her up on it. I have to agree that her explanations sound like excuses!

The burnt cake episode made me smile, my 2 are constantly moaning about food being 'burnt' and if I pull one of them up on their comments you can bet your bottom dollar the other will be going "but I like it burnt Mummy, I'm eating all mine, not like dd2" etc etc etc until the end of time ......

I can see why you might think her explanations were made up on the spot, joan, but I don't think they were. She is an unusually honest child, remarkably straightforward and trustworthy really, which I think is why she is not good at 'getting' nuanced situations.

It's interesting that you ask whether she has bossy friends though, as when I was telling her that of course I loved her, that was why I bothered telling her off, she started having a whinge about her bossy friend and moaning that no matter how polite she was to her, the friend would always expect to be in charge. I feel as though I must be missing something there!

olympic, thank you - it's reassuring to hear that your emotionally mature dd wouldn't necessarily get this stuff either. I have been through patches when dd1 was younger when I wondered whether she might be very mildly aspergery, so that is good to know.

"answer for everything" yyyyyyy! But I think it's more that she's proud to have an explanation or an idea or something rather than out and out rudeness/cheekiness.

Oof, it's good to hear that she's like all your 7yos! I think I need to get a whole lot better at biting my lip Marne, I tend to react immediately. Poor old dd1.

... and yes exactly, ProfYaffle, with my dd I don't think it's cheekiness either. She really isn't a cheeky child at all, and she gets terribly confused and distressed when I come down on her like a ton of bricks.

She sounds pretty normal to me, though on the too-clever-for-her-own-good side of the divide - both my DDs were a bit like this at 7 and what worked for us was a straightforward appeal to empathy - as in 'how do you think that comment made me/Dsis feel'? and then moving on to asking how she would like to be spoken to. We also started telling them that not everything that popped into their heads needed to be spoken out loud.

At age 7 they are also starting to experiment with jokes and making people laugh, but will be very bad at it to begin with - it gets better, and we've found that cracking awful jokes back (mainly puns) really helped get the message across.

Biting the lip and then bringing up the issue in a nice one to one mother and DD talk sounds like a really good approach, you seem to have a lot of insight into what makes your DD tick so I'm sure you'll get through this!

all sound normal to me

and shes right...having something showered out of your hair isnt awful and laughing about it seems a reasonable thing to do to try and cheer her up

I dont think any of this behaviour deserves a real telling off. An explanation sure, but she wasnt being awful

Actually I do think that her explanations were made up on the spot because my 7 year old dd does exactly the same thing.

She will attempt to talk her way out of anything and everything, usually concocting (sp?) some elaborate twisty turny situation -she will do anything rather than admit she is doing something not very nice or deserves to be reprimanded for something.

Oh hell, I don't know, I lurch from 1 crisis to another these days!

It sounds about normal for a lot of 7 year olds IMO, but not easy to deal with when it's a difficult time. Go easy on yourself, and her. Hugs.

I think you need to explain to your dd that love is one thing and liking some one's behaviour or disliking their behaviour is quite another thing altogether. That will also help to stop you from feeling guilty, as you shouldn't feel guilty for dealing with a child that isn't showing any consideration for others feeling or rules - not leaving the table.

Thanks all. pointythings, yes I am sure you're right, appealing to empathy must be the way to go. It's just that I am so horrified by her sheer stupidity on that front.

I really really don't think she is being cleverly evasive or making things up on the spot. She was sitting there crying and telling me how sorry she was and how she hadn't realised how wrong her behaviour had been, and how she hadn't stopped to think how she would like to be treated. So she is absolutely willing to take it on the chin. But in the next breath she was arguing over the terms I'd used to describe 3yo dd2's distress in the shower, so it doesn't seem to help.

Thanks for being supportive ProfessorSunny. I appreciate it. And thank you ivykaty, I think I do need to clarify that distinction with her. She takes everything terribly personally. A couple of weeks ago she asked whether I really loved her or was just pretending, as I shout at her so much.

I veer wildly between thinking I must be being too hard on her to thinking she is impossible. She is so sweet, truthful, loving, clever and imaginative - and also so bafflingly stupid, self-obsessed and self-pitying. Gah.

, to hear her ask if you really loved her...that must have been awful for you. Whenever i frequently tell DS off ,i always say after the occassion, just because i shout doesn't mean that i don't love you and that it's a mummy's job to be mean sometimes so that you grow up to be a good boy. Oh and that i always always love him.
But in answer yep typical 7yo!!

Sit her in your bed with you and have a chat. LISTEN to her without jumping down her throat. She sounds very sweet tbh. My DD2 loves sitting in Mummys bed having a special chat, i apologise for being tired and snappy too as i think it sets a good example of understanding and forgiveness.

She is only seven, let her be right sometimes, let her be a little girl. Love yourself too!