My friend needs to buy more childcare - how I can help her see this?

[CanIHelpMyFriend]

I've namechanged for this as I would hate anyone to identify my friend.

Background is that my friend's DH is a super high-earning overachiever. They are quite old parents of two primary-aged boys, one of whom has quite significant SN. My friend is a SAHM with a lot on her plate (for reasons I don't want to go into for reasons of identification) and absolutely no family support whatsoever. Both she and her DH are demanding types, both on themselves and on others, with very high standards in everything. I think they made some sort of pact not to ever have a nanny; she manages a large and very glamorous home, with lots of entertaining (including long-stay guests) with the help of a PT Filipina. She and her DH are currently at breaking point, both accusing the other of not being helpful or supportive enough. Her DH cannot cut back at work for another three months (and even then it won't be significant). He is well into his 50s and often goes to bed at 3am, gets up at 6am etc. He needs to rest more, and he needs to stop expecting his DW to pick up all the pieces all the time (and she does, brilliantly, but is at the end of her tether) and not complain that she isn't available enough. She needs time off for herself, and for him.

I have hinted that she needs to accept that she needs more help with her children so that she and her DH get a break for even half a day at the weekend, and she makes lots of excuses. She finds it very hard to let her children go - neither of them have ever slept away from home without their parents. But I fear that her marriage is at stake, and her DH's health is definitely in need of care. What can I say to persuade her that she and her DH don't have to be there every single second of the day for their DCs?

Are your children the same age? Could you take yours and theirs out for half a day together and let her see how nice time without them could be?

No, our children are not the same age and only get on in an average sort of way. And the two of them fight a lot and need a lot of refereeing (partly because the one with SN annoys his brother and needs protecting from him) so they are quite hard work. I think they are also quite hard work because they have too much parental attention!

I mean, I can have her children over (and I have offered to take them for an afternoon or even a night, which she won't countenance) but it's a much bigger problem than this. She needs to be able to offload them completely, and regularly, in the way you can do with a nice granny or young, fun nanny (or manny) who will generate their own entertainment and in whom you have utter trust.

IF she seeks your advice I would tell
Her what you say in your op. otherwise I rely wouldn't say anything. Unsolicited advice tends not to be well received.

She does confide in me and she wants to find a way out; the sticking point is that she doesn't want to purchase childcare. She uses her Filipina daily for bits and bobs, but that means the children watch TV while the Filipina does the ironing, so obviously that isn't a real solution. She needs better quality and quantity so that she (and her DH) can forget the responsibilities of parenting entirely for a little while.

So you've told her you think she needs more childcare, she doesn't agree. End of conversation.

Is there a reason you keep referring to the maid by her nationality?

I totally get your quandary wanting to fix your friend's life but you cannot. They have to see for themselves that the situation is unsustainable. Is there any way they could get the child with SN into a regular specialist activity club, bill it to them as a social opportunity for him?

What's a filipina? Is that another word for a housekeeper?

If she is confiding in you, then give it to her straight. They can't manage. If they are high earners, they could always hire a nanny. The right nanny should become part of the family and it is less like childcare, iyswim.

xpost - oh I thought it was a job title! the filipina = the housekeeper

Writing this down is helping. I think I'm going to say something to her DH when I next run into him (which I do sometimes as our paths cross). It's no secret to him that my friend sees me a lot and I am going to start by telling him what a fabulous DW he has (and she is a diamond among women) but that she is under a lot of pressure (far more than she would admit, even perhaps to herself) and that no other women in her position who could afford it would go without more and better childcare help. And I will point out the help that I get from family etc that she doesn't... I think her DH thinks that he is the harder worker in that family and that she should be at his beck and call to soothe him when he gets in from work late... he needs a gentle nudge to see that his DW is (very) deserving too. And also that it won't kill their children to spend time with a nanny, if the nanny is a good one.

If in fact your friend is interested in your opinion on the subject ...

So her primary age kids do attend a primary school, right?
In which case, your friend's time with them is already limited to
mornings/evenings on weekdays and to weekends. Why should your friend's
time managing issues be solved at the kids expense (they will see even less of the parents then). Can't she unload her plate by hiring assistance for
whatever it is on it instead.

Olympias - you are drawing conclusions about the time my friend has responsibility for her children that are incorrect (but I am not going to go into this for reasons of confidentiality). She has them a lot more than that.

I think it's got sod all to do with you actually op. who are you to tell your friend's husband what he should do? Hell probably think she'd had been moaning to you and get antsy with his wife.

"buying childcare" and "the filipina"? You have a very strange way of referring to people.

Also, butt out, leave them to it.

The two of them need to get themselves sorted out. What sort of idiot only takes 3 hours sleep a night for the sake of work? And, yes, could you please do something about referring to your friend's housekeeper as the Filipina. It is downright offensive.

My friend talks about it to me all the time, and both she and her DH talked about it at recent lunch with me and my DP, individually and separately, I would like to help her (and him) find a solution rather than divorce or die of a heart attack (or both)!

Well you have told her your opinion, she doesn't agree, all you can do is make soothing noises. Or ask her not to talk to you about it.

Difficult - doesn't sound like she wants any advice, just reassurance and sympathy. If you have suggested the options more than once, there's not a lot more you can do. Frustrating, but your friends have to make their own decisions and will only take advice if it's what they want to do it anyway. That's human nature I'm afraid.

Well, she asks for advice as to my opinion as to who is in the right when she and her DH have (yet another) fight about how they take the children to football, tennis, cub scouts etc at the weekend when there are two children with different conflicting activities and only one adult available to take them. The solution seems fairly straightforward to me: either you drop an activity (which her DH won't countenance) or you employ another adult (which is off their radar). But I think the latter is more off his radar than hers, because he genuinely doesn't appreciate how much she has to do.

I'm not sure there's much you can do really. if you've made suggestions and hints, and they don't want to take them, that's up to them. I know if can be difficult to see your friends struggling, but they're adults and it's up to them how they want to organise their lives.

I'm not sure what the cleaner/housekeeper's nationality has to do with it either .

Nothing, unless she ass for you advice in which case repeat what youve said here again and again You mean housekeeper, right? Rather rude to keep refering to fillipino.

I'm rather lacking in sympathy, they choose to live like this and I'm presuming can afford help. Lots of people much worse off and don't have money for nannies and houskeepers.

Being well-off doesn't insulate people from having problems to work through - and, indeed, high-earning jobs bring their own particular sets of problems.

Mind your own business would be my advice. Also, learn a bit more manners and respect for people - Describing the cleaner as Filipina repeatedly with no cause is unbelievably rude and dismissive.

i have felt that i desperately need more help and support with childcare because my relationship was suffering as a result of my v.high standards but that was my issue to deal with. i did confide in someone i knew who had been in a similar situation and their response was that i needed more time to myself to de-stress so i now make sure i have a few hours a week to get out the house on my own (excercise). i can now deal with the kids a lot better and the running around in a million different directions all week.
i am a completely different person and my marriage is much better after dh had a couple of weeks at home so we didn't need time away or a nanny, just some family time and then a few quiet evenings together. i know i can cope with a lot more if i've had a few hours to myself to look after myself.

it's very personal though and your friend and her dh need to work that out. if she is at breaking point then it's her responsibility to sort herself out first. it does sound like a nanny for a few hours a week would make life a lot easier, but to be honest with the limited information you can give saying she can't cope with 2 school aged kids with several different extra curricular activities doesn't sound like she has a very hard life.