Awful, awful night with 20 month old (again) - don't know what to do

[TheCountessOlenska]

Just feel so down about DD's sleep. Basically she has slept through the night once when she was about 10 months and that was after several nights of controlled crying techniques - broke my heart and I could not/ can't do anything like that again. Anyway - it didn't work.

She is in a single bed in her own room. She goes off to bed ok (breastfed to sleep). Every night is slightly different - ranging from ok to horrendous. An ok night - she will wake up between midnight and 2am for a feed, but she won't ever go back in her bed so comes in with me and DH. She then sleeps quite well (again falls asleep feeding).

A bad night is like last night. Asleep in her own bed by 8.30. Awake at 10.30 and refused to go back in her bed. Came into our bed where she and I tossed and turned until 2.30am. At which point she became wide awake and got out of bed. I came downstairs with her and sat quietly while she played. She started looking tired so I took her back to our bed. Then the wind started at 4am and she became wide awake again. We went downstairs and she finally fell asleep on me at about 5.30 - she then woke at 7am (still on sofa). I have not slept at all since 2.30am!! She has only had a couple of hours.

DH and I rarely have an uninterrupted evening together or any time in bed on our own. This is the worst part of it.

Does this sound like we have serious sleep problems - like do I need to seek professional help?? Or is it in the range of normal? I never meet anyone who has such a badly sleeping toddler.

Sorry for long post!

Is she teething? She could be waking in pain wanting comfort. Not suprised the wind woke her up, it woke me several times in the night.

My DD was breastfed to 23 months and when her molars came through became a regular night waker. I used to give Calpol around 11pm when they were bad which helped as the teeth tended to push more and be painful at night.

I stopped breastfeeding her after midnight around that age for my sanity as I was the working parent, I needed sleep. DH went in and offered water only after midnight, that reduced night wakings after a few nights of tears. Then I cut out midnight feed and finally bedtime feed became cows milk in straw cup during stories. Once I stopped breastfeeding after bedtime she slept through regularly.

Also with DD I refused to bring her out of her room after bedtime (unless genuinely not well), that helped too as she soon realised that mummy and daddy's bed was not an option so slept better in her bed.

Thanks Zhen - I did actually give Calpol last night but it didn't seem to make a difference. She was just really .

The problem with keeping her in her room is that I then end up falling asleep in her room and then feel that I've abandoned Dh on his own - plus her single bed isn't very comfortable.

I am wondering about knocking BF on the head TBH. I've heard a few people like you who say that sleep improved after night weaning. I'm just really scared to do it and face the crying! (massive wimp)

DH off work this week so I think this might be our window to try something . .

Sounds tough poor you.
I would try and keep her in her room tbh, surely if you explain to dh beforehand he'll know it's for the longer term gain?

I'd also be tempted to cut out night feeds but that's not for everybody. I tend to draw a line earlier than 12 months (has been different with each DC) when I refuse to bf in the night when I feel they don't need it/can manage without. Offering water seems a common tactic though I've never done it.

The key IMO is to pick a plan and stick to it, even i the first few nights are awful, remind yourself they were often awful anyway.

Is she napping too much in the day?

I wouldn't be coming downstairs and playing with her if I were you - I like day/night boundaries to be firmly established. All dark at night even when dd is ill and gets cuddles etc other than night lights no lights!

I know I know - I have lost the plot bringing her downstairs! Right - need to pull myself (and DH) together and sort it out.

Can I ask - when you night weaned, were you confident that they were not hungry in the night? DD is still quite a poor eater which I worry is connected to the bad sleeping.

She naps 1 and a half hours in the day.

TCO....I can sympathise completely. My DS was a great sleeper til he began teething. We got in to the very bad habit of co-sleeping & have spent 3 long nights trying to break the habit. He is 18 months. Last night was the worst! I would advise you choose a plan & stick to your guns. It can be hard but it's for the best in the end. Seek advice from HV if you are unsure.
I have used the Supernanny toddler care book and it is excellent for different techniques. Wishing you luck

When they stop feeding at night their appetite increases during the day to make up for it, so be ready to provide good breakfast possibly slightly earlier than normal.

How many milk feeds is she having at night? Not including her bedtime one?
She will be filling up on those so less likely to eat more solids during the day until you stop.

Yy to possibly early starts for a while, but again, better than what you have been having.

IME stopping bf at night is difficult, the first time with ds1 I caved almost straight away, could fell letdown as he cried.
I needed to prepare myself and be fully committed to it, also helped for dh to do more of the night settling.

Poor you, that really is tough.

With our almost 2 year-old DD, we've noticed that the more involved we are in trying to get her back to sleep after a night waking, the longer it takes.

It sounds like you need a bit of tough love for her sake as much as yours - her sleep is also suffering and it sounds like she needs to learn self-confidence in her own ability to get off to sleep without your input.

I would definitely night-wean as soon as possible, if you can face it. She won't like it because it's a change to what she currently wants and expects. But that's part of the weaning process.

In our case, DH went in to comfort DD during the night, sometimes offering water in a sippy cup. It didn't take her long to get the message.

We also stopped allowing DD into our bed. Lights stayed off and she remained in her cot until a time we deemed was acceptable for getting up (06.00).

We found with our DD the least intervention the better, so we accepted that she would protest for a while but would give up when she realised the attention she craved wasn't forthcoming. So if she wakes, we go in after a couple of minutes to check she's okay, offer a sip of water etc. then when we're satisfied she's comfortable, we tell her we love her, that it's sleep time and night night. Then we leave. This method meant up to three hours-worth of trying to get her back to sleep was cut to about 15-20 minutes, followed by long blissful nights of sleeping through.

HOWEVER I totally understand that you don't want to leave her crying, so try a gradual retreat method - sit silently on the floor with your back to her and move closer to the door each night, or sit in a chair near the cot and without saying anything, gently lie her back down every time she starts up, then move further to the door....

The main thing is that you are consistent so once you decide to stop offering night feeds, don't go back on that. Likewise if you decide to stop co-sleeping. Once they get the message that you are absolutely sticking to your guns, it all gets easier.

Good luck. It's really hard, I hope you can sort something out soon.

I'd just go on dancing the dance, trying to meet the needs of your little one and yourselves as best you can. Don't get yourself stuck into "if we do X, then it'll all be fine", and then stop listening to her and to your instinct. If your child does have a medical reason for sleeping poorly, then night weaning or crying it out or making sure she stays lying in the dark in her own bed (which might be fine for most children) could be truly damaging for her.

20 months old seems young to me to sleep alone - how about putting her bed right next to yours? Or a heap of mattresses on the floor? When children are ready to sleep independently, they sleep happily independently - they don't need training to it IMO (but I know that this view is not mainstream)

I had a very poor sleeper, with similar patterns to what you describe at a similar age and, honestly, similar solutions on our part (including playing quietly downstairs - there just comes a moment when it's crazy to stay lying in bed; on the wakeful nights it would be a four-hour marathon before sleep returned - all the same stuff).

All I can say is:

1. we wasted immense amounts of energy and creativity trying to stop the night wakings. Absolutely everything was elephant powder. We had a horrendous night when we had a horrendous night; there was nothing we could to to affect it. At its worst, we had horrendous nights 3 times a week. This lasted for about 3 years. In the end what really helped was a) co-sleeping of one parent with the child so the other got a good night's sleep and could then allow the exhausted one to nap in the day and b) being consciously aware and accepting of the fact that when it was a genuine night waking, it would be four hours before it was worth trying to sleep again. That stopped a lot of the rage on my part - meant I could just lie quietly in as much dark as the child would tolerate and doze, but not expect to properly drop off.

2. it passed. It really began to pass for us about 4.5. By the age of 7, we'd maybe have one of those nights about once every 3-4 months. This is probably cold comfort if you are there with a 20-month old, but I wish I had known that, even though it was so hard at the time, it would not last for ever.

3. In your shoes, I would do some internet research into sensory processing disorder. Not saying at all that your child has this, but if you look at the classic traits of it and they match up with your child's personality, then you'd steal a march on most of us in seeking diagnosis and help... lots of children with SPD have massive sleep problems of the magnitude you describe. For all I know there might be completely neurotypical children who, for whatever reason, don't sleep well - I just don't tend to hang out in NT circles, so I don't know how common it is among ordinary families :)

Thanks for all your comments.

Ommmward - interesting - I wasn't sure if I was going to find anyone to say "just go with it". That is (and always has been) my gut instinct - and I find trying to "fix" anything with DD more stressful than just accepting whatever it is. BUT DH was very upset today about it all and thinks I have let things slide and created the situation by being to soft on her.

Dd was exactly like this. Happy to say she is 5 now and sleeps 7 till 7 where all those sleepy babies of my friends are up at 4 am so there is light at the end of this awful tunnel.

I just had to ride it through really so no specific advice as nothing really worked for us simply growing up. However I would never ever bring downstairs to play, the lights stayed dim and whispers with minimal eye
Contact. Good luck.

Hello - sure all the above comments have answered your query, and I am not emailling with anything new, but just to say my dd is just the same at 23 months. I BF and weaned a while back thinking it would help but it didn't. We were running a B&B at the time, so when she woke, she would get a drink (bottle of milk) to quieten her before she woke our paying guests up. A year on, she still wakes at 1.30 on the dot. I have tried the usual tactics and spent one night trying from 1.30am till 6.30am - how I kept my cool i do not know! I am pregnant again and therefore have NOOOO energy and my other half has a really stressful job with long hours so spending a few nights 'cracking' this habit is much easier said than done. We tried a low voltage night light - no joy, and now she is in her own single bed. Over xmas my younger sister slept in her room on an air mattress due to over crowding and low and behold she slept through, so it seems she likes company - I'm just not energetic enough to take the hard line, and I am really liking ommmwards comments. My dd used to co sleep when we were BF, so I imagine it all started with that. God knows what we'll do when the 2nd one arrives, but hey ho, worse things happen at sea - good luck with yours x

AdiVic thanks very much for that - it really helps to know we're not alone!

"I'm just not energetic enough to take the hard line" Y Y that is me too!

Am impressed you are having number 2 (congrats!)- I am v broody but feeling like a crap parent at the moment!

The fact that you are on here asking for advice proves you are not a crap parent, just a concerned one:) I think there are bigger problems to worry about than whether or not a toddler sleeps through, there is too much pressure to be perfect with perfect kids, doing everything by the book. As long as mine are healthy, happy, well mannered and do ok at school I'll be happy. At the end of the day they are hardly likely to be hopping in with ma and pa at age 16, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. xx