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Parenting

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Original poster

dd is 4.5 and gets told off for the same things over and over but doesnt learn

23 replies

familyfun · 21/12/2011 21:27

how can i break the habit of "dd stop this dd stop that dd if you do that again you will be on the naughty step" then dd crying saying she doesnt know why she does it.
at the table she keeps turning round facing away and reaching for things and knocking things off the table.
she climbs on the back of the settee
she jumps on the bed when dd2 is on there
she throws cups of water out the bath if dp picks dd2 out out of jealousy
she snatches of dd2
she screams and shouts and crys over everything

i feel like i spend all day telling her off

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

toddlerama · 21/12/2011 21:34

With the table thing - stop telling her off, just keep reminding her "feet forward, bum on seat DD". My 4.5 DD is exactly the same at the table - I think it's just hard to focus on doing something so boring. She needs reminding, but not telling off.

Climbing on the settee - we naughty step her every time now with no warning before hand. She knows very well not to do it and after the step doesn't do it again the same day.

The other things seem to be related to jealousy over DD2. How old is DD2? Can she help you out with her at all? Is there anything special the 2 of you could do together that DD2 would not be involved in? My DD loves a website called Reading Eggs which DD2 is too young to follow so if she's feeling a bit pushed out we do that together. DD2 watches and learns the odd thing, but it's beyond her to shout out answers, so DD1 feels very pleased with herself and then wants to help DD2 with something else afterwards.

Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 21:42

dd2 is 13 months and dd1 is lovely with her sitting and playing and looking after her but as soon as dp comes home from work she will push dd2 out the way and scream at her as she just wants her dad all to herself. this hasnt improved at all.
if dd2 naps i always so something with dd1 like craft or games or reading.
dp also spends time alone with dd1 too.
she has a habit of swinging between the settees and several times has swung too high and landed flat on her back and really cried but still does it?? she has swung round the bannister on the stairs 3 times today and twice has cracked her head but doesnt learn.
we have taken her swimming and a walk today so she has had exercise.

OP posts:

PurplePidjInAPearTree · 21/12/2011 21:45

You need a consequence that works. If the naughty step has no effect, take away her favourite toy for 24 hours. Or, have a reward scheme for good behaviour and withold stickerts when she misbehaves.

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Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 21:54

she has a reward chart, i did it for a few main things like sitting nicely at dinner etc, she starts off getting stickers, then it all goes wrong and she never gets enough to get the reward.

OP posts:

PurplePidjInAPearTree · 21/12/2011 22:03

Make the reward smaller and more acheivable then. 3 stickers by lunchtime = a sweetie with lunch. 3 in the afternoon = a sweetie with tea. 3 in the morning + 3 in the afternoon + 3 in the evening = a small toy

HumphreyCobbler · 21/12/2011 22:06

I would try praising the positive. As soon as she sits nicely point it out loudly "Oh LOOK how brilliantly you are sitting" etc. It can be quite a lot of effort to do, but it beats telling off all the time. I find I often fall into a negative cycle but reminding myself to be positive can help.

I also find "How to talk so Kids Will Listen" a great book for giving alternative stragtegies to the naughty step (which I really hate).

Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 22:07

yes will try a smaller, shorter term reward chart.
she is very good at school, she used to be good in public but now shouts wanting everything in shops and shouts rudely at me and dp like today "get me out the car now" no not you mommy i want daddy" in the carpark with people staring at us

OP posts:

Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 22:08

once she loses it she wil throw herself down and scream, she never tantrummed like this as a toddler.

OP posts:

BornToBeRiled · 21/12/2011 22:10

Agree about really concentrating in praise, especially for personal traits such as kindness, generosity. Works wonders here.

HumphreyCobbler · 21/12/2011 22:11

How big is the gap between her and DD2?

Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 22:12

i do praise her, especially when she is kind to her sister, which she is quite often as she loves getting her toys and sharing food with her, but i can be halfway through telling her how kind she is when she starts kicking or something else.
also ive tried ignoring, but she repeats the behaviour over asnd over even telling me she is doing it.

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Original poster

familyfun · 21/12/2011 22:13

3 yr gap

OP posts:

HumphreyCobbler · 21/12/2011 22:15

I am sure you do praise her - I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't. Just that it can be hard when you have to deal with difficult behavior again and again.

I was wondering if your DD is extra tired due to starting school?

HumphreyCobbler · 21/12/2011 22:16

Oh so it isn't new baby jealousy then.

this is the book that saved my life

maydaychild · 21/12/2011 22:18

I posted about similar behaviour about a month ago. Have now replied to 3 others in similar vein.
It's tiredness from school
My dd oldest just finished 1 st term in reception. She has been a horror and totally different child
Agree with change in rewards
I took away a minute from laptop for misdemeanors after very brief short warning. She has improved dramatically

Promise, it will pass. Until end of next term maybe!

ScramblyEgg · 21/12/2011 22:30

My DS is only 3 but I've found he pays much more attention if I tell him what I do want him to do, not what I don't want him to do - or tell him the reason why I don't want him to do something.

Original poster

familyfun · 22/12/2011 20:30

dd2 is 13 months but dd1 is still incredibly jealous when her dad is with dd2.
yes i agree she gets very very tired from school as she has just finished her first term in reception and often if she has had a tough day and someone has been mean to her or something has worried her at school she will take it out on us screaming and shouting and having nightmares so then we are all even more tired.
but its holidays now and she has been going to bed by 8 and getting up at 6 still but she is still misbehaving.

today i took her to her grandads, just me and dd1 went, i told her it was just big girls going and her grandad made a fuss of her and told her how good she was and she has icecream as a treat. then this afternoon we all went to the park and she took her scooter too so got lots of time to let off steam and have fun as a family. as we left i went to put her in the carseat and she screamed at me that she wanted her dad to put her in and she kicked my little finger against the door and it hurt me so i smacked her fingers. (i swore id never smack as it teaches nothing and i dont want her hitting dd2 but lately she has been hitting and kicking us and we have tapped her fingers a few times). then she screamed all the way to the shops. dp went in the shop alone to pick up a few groceries and was gone 10-15 mins. she screamed the whole time that she wanted to go with him and i had ruined her day and she hated me and then repeatedly kicked the back of my carseat as hard as she could. i told her i knew she was tired and i loved her and we would be home soon but she wouldnt calm down. i moved the chair forward as far as i could, she still kicked, i moved the chair back so she had no room to kick, she just shoved the chair still, i told her off really sternly. then dd2 was crying so i got out the car and stood and held dd2 and left dd1 screaming in the car. by the time dp came back dd1 was nearly being sick from crying so much and i was on the verge of tears, i just dont know what to do with her.

OP posts:

toddlerama · 22/12/2011 20:58

Oh family I'm so sorry, that sounds like a shit day. She sounds completely exhausted. The unreasonable demands, disproportionate responses and hurting herself arseing about on the furniture are all horribly familiar. Mine both do the first two when they're shattered and the 3rd all the time. I don't know what's normal, but my 4.5 yo still sleeps 12 hours a night, sometimes more. She still naps in the car pretty consistently too.

I don't know really what the answer is other than I've started to try not to back them into corners. DH still does this and thinks they need to learn who's boss, but the reality is they are better behaved when he lightens up a bit. Was there a reason she couldn't go with DP? Because I think she sounds like she feel cut off from him. Gets mean to DD2 when he comes home, wants him to strap her in, wants to go in the shop with him and you have to be the bad guy that keeps her away. That isn't fair to your relationship with her.

Original poster

familyfun · 22/12/2011 21:13

thanks toddlerama, thing is before bed dd1 was cuddled up to me on the settee stroking my hair telling me she loves me so so much, and i was telling her back obviously, she changes so quickly.
she has never slept long, she used to sleep 9-6 and a 2 hr nap till she was 2 so 11 hours, since then only 8-6 so 10 hours. very rarely falls asleep in car.
dd2 sleeps 10 hours too and she is only 13 months, she has never napped or fell asleep in car/pram.
dd1 adores dp and is a real daddy girl, always has been, she quickly accepted that i had to look after dd2 and helps me with her but she cant accept that he has anything to do with dd2, it makes her jealous.
he didnt take her in the shop because she was screaming about me strappin her in and he said i would be quicke to go alone (although when left with 2 crying kids for 10 mins i wished he had taken her), she also asks for everything in shops at the moment and would have been a pain.
i often feel like im bad cop and dp is good cop, im a sahm so see much more of dd1 even when she is at school wheras dp sees her between 30 mins and 90 mins a day.
dd often cries if dp has gone to work before she gets up and cries if he goes out, its like she has a separation problem from him. but she sees him every day, we do lots as a family at weekends, have lots of caravan/cheap holidays so theres no reason that i can guess.

OP posts:

BornToBeRiled · 23/12/2011 07:55

Seriously, I know we all praise our DC, but I have found that very obvious and specific praise, while turning a blind eye to poor behaviour when possible (i.e, when safety or really rude, hitting etc are nor involved) has really improved behaviour. My 4 year old is desperate for more and is working hard for it: I really have to lay it on thick though.

lucidlady · 23/12/2011 09:16

Does she ever get time with DP on her own?

BertieBotts · 23/12/2011 09:25

Definitely focus the instruction on what you want her to do - so things like "Sit on the sofa, or get off it please" or "Gently when DD2 is on the bed, or get off it please" - and then maybe discussion when she's calm as to why she is doing it?

Keep punishments/consequences as related as possible, either directly stopping her from doing whatever it is or showing her why she shouldn't (although sounds like natural consequences e.g. letting her hurt herself aren't working) - so removing to another room, straight out of bath if messing around (or remove toys from bath which is what we do with DS)

I probably would not smack, of course that's your decision but I do believe really strongly in trying to model ways of dealing with situations which you'd be happy for them to copy. I know it's not always easy though :( Hope things calm down soon. Earlier bedtime perhaps?

peppajay · 23/12/2011 18:38

Nothing ever worked with my dd naughty step, taking away treats she would just accept it and say I don't mind. I like the idea of taking a toy away but mine don't have 1 favourite toy they have 6 or 7 so if I took 1 away she would always say its ok i'll play with this toy so I used to take them all away but she would just say never mind!!! Same now with my DS, when he has misbehaved he goes and gets a toy for me to take away. Sticker chart works better for my 5 yr old now but doesn't seem bothered if doesn't get one.

The thing that works now is to ban her speaking to my parents on the phone for a whole week, it so works only happened twice now I only have to threaten and she starts behaving. My two are very matter of fact and nothing much phases them therefore I really have to get into their phyche to find what works still trying to work out what to do when my DS misbehaves!! He loves going on the buses so thinking maybe a week of no buses. All kids are different and I struggled for so long trying to get them to grasp the naughty step and now I wish I had realised it wasn't going to work rather than keep on trying for over a yr!!! If it works great, works great for my niece but not for my kids!!!

I think you need to work out what is really going to bother them and work around that concept!!!

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