Discipline - how do you discipline your kids???

[Helenemjay]

And do you ever feel guilty when you have shouted at them?

I do shout but I don't do it that often. I never feel guilty. They need to know when they've overstepped the mark.

yes, i feel guoilty when i have shouted - mostly because shouting isn't discipline, it's me letting off steam.
Discipline I do by talking, star charts for good behaviour and eye-to-eye stern talking at his level for explaining why I am not happy. Would threaten to put a stop to an upcoming treat if that didn't work - and carry it through. Would be something immediate, not tomorrow or even later that day, but now. (this dvd will be turned off / you will go to your room / I will take away what you are playing with and put it on cupboard until next week). But it v v rarely reaches that stage.

But he is only 4 and I don't have other kids to contend with.

I rarely shout I guess, whne I do I do not fel guilty as it is usually at ds 12 who needs a rev up occasioanlly, both of mine respond ot being asked nicely, so for that I'm thankful...

ds1's (5) school have informed me he has a big problem with authority and refuses to do anything unless they are on his terms! - not sure how to deal with this, im crap with the whole discipline thing!

As a teacher we are told not to shout as if you shout all the time it shows you've lost control and you've nowhere to go to next iyswim.

As a parent it's fairly human to shout but I agree it's more about you losing it and letting off steam rather than as effective way of disciplining.

I agree with blu about their being definite consequences that you carry through with and never threaten something you aren't prepared to do. And of course somesort of reward system.

Time out
Distraction
I messages
Positive attention
and several others complete my toolbox of things to avert conflict.

Feel truly awful if I am reduced to shouting. Like Blu, it is about me expressing my frustration (negatively) and NOT a form of effective discipline.

Can appreciate what jalopy says but feel there are better ways to show them when they have overstepped the mark. I don't always achieve this with my own children but oddly find it easy with other people's kids.

I shout mostly when they are shouting - just to be heard over the din - only occasionally do I remember the whispering technique I used so often when teaching!

helenemjay: It must have been quite upsetting to hear that from the school - were you expecting them to have any difficulty managing his behaviour? What do you think has led the school to say this? How does he behave at home? Do you find that you often work around what he wants rather than you leading things? Could you describe some of his behaviour that you would like to change?

It makes a difference to how you might best approach it.

WHats the whispering technique?

Whispering technique is not as flash as I may have made it sound. It is simply whispering when there is bedlam aroud you or if your children are yelling. The stark contrast to them makes them stop and listen more than if you join in with the noise!

Sorry if that is an anti climax to your expoectations about my mystery technique.lol

Sorry my post was a bit flippant. I consider myself to be quite strict and set firm boundaries. Thankfully my dh is very supportive so we are always consistent with our kids when it comes down to discipline. I use the same toolbox as nannyme! Time out, withdrawal of privelleges, firm voice etc...I rarely resort to shouting but if it happens I genuinely don't feel guilty about it. I think it's useful, once in a while, for a child to realise that they've gone one step to far.

I raise my voice quite a bit and speak in a rather stern way - once I've got their attention that is - get down on my knees to their level etc.

Naughty step doesn't work for me (I don't particularly like it) And no I don't feel remotely guilty when I shout or the rare occasion when I smack.

What I can't stand is the pleading, wheedling type of approach I hear from some parents.

I think thinking of it as 'discipline' can narrow down the options for you!

I try to think of it as behaviour management - which, for me at least, leads to me being more positive than negative.

Discipline always makes me think of 6 of the best or bootcamp - neither of which I want to have inflicted on my DCs!

I try very very hard not to shout - it isn't nice. It is quite rude really!

I find shouting gets me nowhere and actually, I get the best out of the boys by remaining calm. It's hard sometimes, especially if in a hurry to get to school or something but shouting doesn't make it quicker. Certainly this last week I've shouted less and life has been easier. I only try to shout if they have done something really bad or dangerous and then they realise it's serious because otherwise I wouldn't shout.

At the moment, we are using sticker/reward charts with ds1 and ds2 (they are 4.8 and 3.2) and they work really well. I have printed off charts and each day is split into - before school (flash point!), morning, afternoon (this was to take in ds1 coming out of school as we had an issue with tantrums here but that's gone now), tea time (major flash point!), bedtime (not tooo bad, but can be). If they are good for the whole of each section they get a smiley face sticker, if naughty they get a black cross. If they get 4 or more smileys in a day they get to choose a glittery fire engine/police car sticker. It doesn't go further than that but it's enough! Most of the time if they start to act up I just say 'are we putting a black cross on your chart?' and it brings them right back round. Simple souls aren't they!?

I do use the naughty step occasionally - it can be effective as I use it as a place for them to take a minute to think about what they've done. I don't enforce a time to sit there - usually after less than a minute they will say 'mummy, I want to say sorry' or 'mummy, I've calmed down now, can I play?'. I did it with ds2 yesterday as he went into a hysterical tantrum over dinner - I couldn't even work out why and he wouldn't talk to me so I just sat him there to calm down. After a minute or so I said 'are you coming to eat your dinner?' and he just did, no problems.

When I shout the kids stop dead in their tracks as I reserve it for when I really need it; like stopping them from placing themselves in danger (hot pans, traffic etc).

Tend to do the positive reinforcement/ three stikes and you are out rule (time out, toy/offending item removed) kind of a thing as I think if parents whout all the time the kids get desensitised to it (imo).

Naughty stair - a minute for every year (e.g. 2 years old = 2 mons) - works really well - Always try to explain to DD what she has done wrong and why it is unacceptable - shouting never works, better to be dead calm and angry - MUCH scarier!! When she is older I will threaten to take away priviledges and I WILL carry out threats if the behaviour continues!!

Hurrah for "Three Strikes"'!! - That is great too - My DD is a little minx though and is often very funny when she is being naughty - have to try hard not to giggle - Whoops!!

Well you all sound really sensible - im ashamed to admit i shout and carry on like a right old nutter, and my ds1 and ds2 who is nearly 3 just let me get on with it, and i thoroughly wind myself up! they never take any notice of what i say and that pee's me off even more! Blu - i have never been aware off my son having any problems until he started pre school 2 years ago, they reported that he was very very disruptive all the time and none of theyre usual tactics had any effect, it became quite frequent for one or two of the others lo's parents to have to sign the 'accident' book as my ds had lobbed a toy and it had hit another child or he had just got mad and lashed out at another child - i feel very bad for the poor other children that get the brunt of him, but to be honest he is now a very popular boy in his class and he has lots of friends - he has turned his focus to the teachers, they say when they are talking to the class he will sit there copying what she is saying, or just making silly noises every time she talks just to p*ss her off i expect! - im so ashamed, they have got him on the special needs books now as he is so naughty, but at the same time he is so caring and affectionate, he sat with ds2 the other day when he wasnt feeling well and sat there for almost an hour just cuddling him and kissing his head until they both fell asleep! - was soooo cute! i really need to get my act together on the old discipline thing im really really rubbish! and star charts dont work for him AT ALL! (stubborn little sod)

do as i say or i will kick your arse down the street....dont stand there looking at me DO IT NOW

no...absolutley no buts, get your arse in gear NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

Lol custardo! i need you here!! im clearly too soft!

Helenemjay - it does sound as if it would be good to get him established in some more mature behaviour, as he sounds a nice little boy, and it would be a shame if he got out of hand.
Do you think he might have any special needs or difficulties that make it hard for him - or has he just got into a mad groove and got used to not listening t you? I am sure that ignoring you ranting on would be good training for not listening to teachers! Not blaming you - it's easy enough to get into! Anyway, it's worth having a good strong consistent effort at getting him back under control, so that any actual special needs can be seen for what they are, not muddled with his antics!
I would sit down and have a long hard think about where the flash points come - which is the moment you lose control, and how you can intervene before it goes too far. he is old enough to understand a system, like star chart for good beahviour, penalty system for bad. tamba started a thread before Christmas about getting her boys to behave - lot of suggestions on their, i think.
Start with a star chart and a penalty system, with a short tun-around period to begin with - maybe just one day. i.e if he gets to the end of the day without shouting at you, he gets a small treat. But you have to ensure that he doesn't get that treat throughout the day. No use promising sweets or tv if that's what he's had access to all day!! Treats to be gained ONLY if he acjieves what is asked. Starting with a short turnaround gives him the ide that it will work for him, he can be good, he does get the reward. Same with a penalty system. But you have to REALLY impose it. if you say 'no sweets' or 'go to room' it has to be acrried through firmly and calmly. And no swets half an hour later, either!

It will take energy, but not as much as ineffective yelling. Sit him down and make him look at you, talk to him in a firm, not pleading, desparate or high-pitched voice. If he won't sit still and listen, hold his arms firmly and calmly until he does. But explain what you want of him clearly, warn him of the consequences, give him one three-second chance to comply, and impose penalties if he dpesn't.

He obviously has a nice nature, so he may well respond quickly when he understands that there ill be more approval and less yelling if he behaves.

The 'no buts' thing of Custy's is essential. The bottom line is, he does what you ask, no ifs, buts or fuss. If he does make a fuss, ignore it and proceed anyway. If you're trying to get him to get his coat on, get him in a place he can't get away from you, hold his coat, get to his level, and just repeat 'put your coat in please' v firmly until he does it. 'Put your coat on NOW, please, I'm going to count to 3 and if it isn't on by then, your favourite toy will go on top of the cupboard for a week.'. Carry on like that, however much fuss he is making, but DON'T threaten anything that you can't or won't carry through.

If I shout DS generally yells "don't shout at me!". Which has the effect of calming me down and enabling me to sit with him and tell him why I'm hacked off.
He gets toys taken off him and put somewhere he can't reach but can see - tormented torture!!
He gets sent to his room for major crimes. He likes playing by himself in his room but only if it's his choice, if I make him go he hates it as he can hear me and DS2 downstairs.
All of the above calm him down a bit and after a few minutes we're friends again and he usually hugs me and says he loves me and I say I love him, all lovely again.

Aww pfer, you sound like you have it in hand too! and thanks blu you are so right in what you say, i do need to set firm boundries and stick to them, i have a very hot temper though, and since having dd (16weeks) i have gotton worse, i know its probably just a few small baby issues that get on top of me but you know what small babies are like for stress levels! - she's a cryer!!! so i think i little chill out session for ME would probably help more than anything sometimes lol!! we saw a child pyschologist a couple of months ago and she said she thinks he may have Aspergers - but only very very mildly, i have recently discussed this with my aunt who has worked with special needs kids for 30 years and she says no way - i agree, im certain he is just a little bugger!!

Helenemjay - I think you are right - some time for you to re-charge and relax sounds as if it should be top of the list before you do anything else. No wonder you are frazzled, with a baby.
I don't know anything about Aspergers, maybe he does have a touch of borderline something or other - but I would have thought that firm boundaries calmly implimented would be better for all of you than you (understandably) doing your nut, and then if he IS still findiing things hard to accept, you can get some more expert advice.

Good luck.

Thanks blu