Husband driving me nuts...rant

[boredbuthappy]

I have a 8.5 month old son who is a pretty demanding baby (what baby isn't). He's a terrible sleeper, very difficult to keep entertained because he refuses to make any effort to move from A to B, very short tempered. The only thing he does well is eat and drink. I have painstakingly established, tweaked and re-established various routines for him through the months and what is driving me crazy is that DH doesn't see the importance of these routines and, when left to his own devices, doesn;t adhere to them.

For example, last night while I was cooking dinner, noticed the time on the clock to be 6:10pm and asked DH to start bath and bedtime routine for DS. I usually give him a bath at about 6:00pm so that there is enough time to enjoy bath, get dressed for bed, a song and story etc and a bottle before he drifts off to sleep at about 7:00pm. By 6:30pm DH was still sat infront of the tv with DS. This literally sent me bonkers. I know it's only a half hour difference but if he didn't also vary the times he gives him meals/snacks/bottles I woulnd't care so much. It's as though he's trying to undermine me at every turn because he mocks me about it all the time.

I know this may sound quite unreasonable to some, but it's really getting on my nerves. When I call him on it, he tells me I'm being a control freak and very obviously does not take me seriously on anything when it comes to DS.

DS is a terrible napper and at 8.5 months still has yet to have a night where he doesn't wake up 6 or 7 times. Everyone from whom I've sought advice and reiterated the importance of a solid routine and this is what I'm always trying to achieve. Feels like I'm fighting a losing battle every day.

Umm. Given that your DS doesn't sleep all that well (by your own account) doing your routine, would it hurt to try your DH's way for a bit? He's entitled to his opinion - maybe going a bit easier with them both might make life easier for you. Routines are good for babies who like routines - neither of mine did and sometimes you just need to go with the flow. It's rare for EVERYONE to say 'oh you absolutely must have a routine'. Routines are of dubious value - your baby's natural rhythms are more important than what the clock says.

Hmmm....yes, you could be right, I should let my husband run a complete muck of my son's day whenever he can ie, let him stay up for 5-6 hours without putting him down for a nap and wondering why the poor child has been whining all afternoon, or give him his first feed of the day at 10:00am when he woke at 6:00am. You've missed my point, DH is not doing things when baby needs, he does them when it suits him.

Sorry to lash back at you, but DH works full-time and only sees his child on the weekends and for about 30 minutes in the morning before he goes to work. He has no idea of the baby's natural rhythms. The routines I've worked with have been based on baby's needs ie go with the flow from when he wakes (with some reasonable limits such as time between feeds and naps when he has them). There's no way I could stick to set times for these when he doesn't have a set time for when he wakes for the day. The only thing I try to do is put him to bed for the night around the same time each day to try and regulate his days as much as I can. Everyone needs a bedtime don't they?

Anyway, I posted here to b*tch anonymously, I could have gone on about this for pages, tbh, not even expecting many to reply.

I think routines are generally very helpful (and I'm not a GF/BW follower, I might add) because structure can be comforting to small children as they can anticipate what will happen and what's expected of them. Provided the routine is a reasonable compromise between what the parents need and what works for the child, then I think they are a good idea.

"your baby's natural rhythms...." immediately suggests that a child has an inbuilt routine already and the routine that will work best is the one that is closest to their natural inclinations.

Some babies and children are night owls, some are larks. Some need 13 hours sleep a night, some need 10 etc. Over time, you can work out what your child needs and tailor things accordingly.
For example, I realised our DD only needs around 10.5 hours sleep per night, so we started doing lights out at 20.00 instead of 19.00 and as a result, she wakes after 06.00 rather than before. DD has an energy rush after her bath, so we let her run around a bit and play before winding her down with stories before bedtime and she usually goes down just fine. Those are the kind of things only you know and can work into your routine.

The fact that your child is waking a lot overnight is probably not related to how good or otherwise your routine is. Given your DS' age, I expect you're in the 8-10 month sleep regression and the best routine in the world won't necessarily help until he's through it.
BUT I think a good bedtime routine at a reasonably consistent time every night is a good habit to get into and will reap dividends as they get older.

Another habit which I think is essential at this stage is for both parents to be on the same page when it comes to parenting techniques and to back each other up. If you're working hard to maintain a consistent routine for your DS, then it's unfair of your DH not to respect that. But it's worth having a conversation with him about it and coming to an agreement about it. He may be rebelling a bit because he feels too controlled.

You could, as Octavia suggests, try it your DH's way for a week or two and see if it makes any difference to your DS and his sleeping. If it makes no difference or your DS is more unsettled, then you have something to point to when arguing in favour of a routine and perhaps your DH will take it more seriously.

It's important you put on a united front when it comes to parenting though, whichever approach you choose to follow. Parents undermining each other is a sure fire way of storing up behaviour problems for the future IMO.

Good luck!!!

X-posted with you! Sounds like you're already thinking about the best routine for your child, fair do's.

And no, I don't think your DH is being fair by missing naps and doing other things that put your DS in a difficult mood. And that's the point, isn't it? If your DS is generally on an even keel with the routine you're following and your DH's actions are making him cranky, then QED. Stick with the routine.

Yes, DH can undo weeks getting into a good rhythm in just one saturday while I've gone out for the day or afternoon or whatever. This is what bothers me, he takes no note of or even asks about how/what DS has been doing, and will totally disregard anything I tell him about times DS ate or drank and would probably be hungry again etc, or when DS will most likely be looking for some zzzzz. He doesn't do it all the time, just when he's got 'something better to do' such as new PC game he's been lookign forward to, or something especially interesting on tv. Makes him sound like a child doesn't it? Ironically, he's not, but he is extremely stubborn and I think you have hit the nail on the head about him feeling too controlled. Fact is though, I'm not trying to control him, I'm trying to look after DS as best I can. So frustrating.

Sorry, but I think you're not being fair to your husband. Babies need 'patterns' not strict routines. Routines are there for us, not our babies, and I think it would help you enormously to realise that.

I think you are being too controlling, of both your DH and your DS. Relax a bit and go with the flow a little more and maybe you won't feel so tense.

YABU. I agree with flamingo. Babies need flexible routines or patterns not strict ones. Just try and go with the flow and let you DH deal with your DS his way when he's looking after him.

Actually I think babies do need routines - loose or tight, whatever. We as adults probably have routines that we don't even think of but follow.

A routine can be as simple as bedtime at the same time with meals at x/y/z times and naps in-between - which sounds like what the OP does.

Your DH is being an arse - he's not the main carer so should take the lead from you. Not meeting his son's needs because he wants to play a PC game is, quite frankly, taking the piss and selfish.

I'd aak him why he mocks you (not on), why he doesn't follow the basics. A baby is not capable of getting food when it's hungry, so why should it wait a ridiculous amount of time before being fed??

Your routine will get there - 9 months was a tough time for me as DS was moving from 3 to 2 naps and he woke loads at night. As we got over that and closer to 1, he settled down a lot. Now age 2, he has a solid routine and thrives because whoever looks after him knows what to do.

YABU. If you DH only gets to see baby at weekends and 30 min weekdays you cannot expect him to be as stressed out as you about routines etc. Relax and give them time to bond, let DH come up with some of his on ideas of parenting. My first baby was a nightmare to get to sleep/eat/etc etc, ds2 and ds3 where we were much more chilled out were sooo much easier.

I think people have said various points on routines that I might have said so I won't go into detail.

However, I have a DH who is very anti routine and I was quite pro it (in a flexible way), so in essence different parenting styles. Words in your original OP such as DH won't 'adhere' gives me the impression that you are very controlling. My DH, despite working similar hours like yours, needs to feel he has a say in being a parent and so we discuss things together. It gets easier as they get older and can be more flexible. Your DH needs to understand that his laughing at your routines is hurtful and disrespectful but in the same way you need to listen to his thoughts. Sounds though your DH hasn't adapted his life to suit your son yet (remember you've been at home with him so had much more practice!), whilst he needs to pull his socks up I think you both need to feel heard and come up with something together.

Iggly, would you agree that most people use 'routine' to mean quite a strict adherence to particular times for particular things? You talk about a 'loose' routine but I think that's what most posters mean by a natural rhythm or pattern, rather than a 'routine'. So a snack at some point midmorning when your DC is hungry (rhythm/pattern), rather than sitting them down in front of something bang on the dot of 9.30am whether they're hungry or not (routine).

boredbuthappy - your initial post sounded as though you were working to quite a strict routine but then you said the only time you adhere to is bedtime - which sounds reasonable to me. If your DH is ignoring what you're saying about when your DS is likely to need food and naps then you need to sit down and discuss your approaches to parenting. Given that (from your description) he seems capable of ignoring a hungry or tired child for entirely selfish reasons then he's being a child himself and (as Iggly says) is being an arse. Is he in denial about having a baby? If he won't listen to what you say then buy him a good book about babies to read.

I remember being very strict with DS1's routine when he was small and both of us (DH more so) getting really irritated when his routine was interrupted. When DS2 came along although he had a sort of routine we soon realised that it wasn't as crucial as we thought and missing a nap here or there wasn't the end of the world. He really had to fit in with us more.

Having said that your DH sounds rather selfish and really should work with you on all matters baby related.

Yes Octavia but the natural rythym tends to be at a similar point each day - so I always get hungry at 7am as that's when I eat breakfast. I didn't think the OP was talking about a super strict routine - so couldn't understand why some of the comments (possibly because I recognised it as being like mine). Routine seems to be a dirty word (although I know why!)

It's a question of semantics IMO.

For me, a "routine" involves certain things tending to happen at similar times every day - waking up, getting up, breakfast, activities, snacks, lunch, sleep, more activities, supper, bath, wind-down, bed. Some might call that a pattern, I think of it as a routine, but it's not timed to the minute and variations can and do happen.

But most importantly, it's something that suits the whole family and minimises stress for all - the most important factor when it comes to having a "routine", "pattern" or whatever else you may wish to call it.

as is probably obvious from the posts so far there is no right answer to the routine / pattern / go with the flow thing - if there was everyone would do the same . However, it seems from your OP that what would really help you is some appreciation from your DP of what you are trying to achieve and he will only be able to do that if he experiences it. Is he able to take a few days off so he can see what they day is like? When DS was small, DP couldn't understand why I was so pissed off if someone rang and woke DS up from a nap or something happened to throw off our "pattern" as it had such a knock on effect and sometimes meant a disturbed night rather than a sleep through one. It really isn't that common for babies that old to waking that many times in the night - it must be killing you and you have my sincere sympathies. Do you know what it is that's waking him? Temperature, food, nappy, odd noises from the boiler or something? I agree that you need support from your DP here, its hard enough to deal with that sort of sleep deprivation without feeling like you are doing it alone.

i would advise the following but please feel free to ignore
1)you need to get some decent sleep. everything will seem better then. just find a way to get it whatever it takes. baby in pram at end of garden or locked in the car for instance.
2) in regard to baby sleeping-maybe try putting in more layers? my daughter was terrible but we have a cold house, i now put her in 3 layers then babygrow then 3 blankets and she now sleeps 8.30-5am.
3) husbands; he IS being unreasonable but you have to be tactical to make things better. men need attention - he misses pre-baby days when you were more focused on him. your husband is struggling to work out where he fits in and probably feeling overwhelmed by it all.

-talk to him about stuff other than baby stuff. i try to read a news article once a day then chat with hubby about it so that he still sees me as someone other than just a mum, and also so i have something to talk about.
-do something together once a week and ban all baby talk. it doesnt have to be anything fancy/physical+you dont have to go out- we watch an episode of frozen planet on tv together every week+eat icecream. i make sure it is set in stone- if baby is crying i just put her upstairs. it is hard to ignore her but it is really important for you both to have some time together.
-men need to feel needed not nagged. he's clearly crap at baby stuff so get him to do something else for you that he IS good at then praise him ridiculously for it, this will increase his self esteem.
-if you are up to it get more physical with him and he will be much more receptive to your routine ideas too (sorry but it's true!)

i know it is unfair that YOU have to be the one to extend the olive branch but it will work.

if it doesn't, just go away for a week and leave them alone together and he will see for himself how crap it is when a baby wont stop crying... and tell him to start treating your mothering skills with some respect.

you need to relax and inject some fun back into the whole thing

you say He's a terrible sleeper, very difficult to keep entertained because he refuses to make any effort to move from A to B, very short tempered. The only thing he does well is eat and drink he's just a baby, he's not meant to do much apart from eat and sleep, so what if he doesn't crawl yet? you sound slightly unhinged to be frank, have you thought about discussing how you feel with a gp?

Wow that's some awesome advice from wafflingworrier there. Put the baby at the end of the garden if it's crying? Lock it in the car? Behave like a 50s housewife (make sure you attend to his PHYSICAL needs!) Don't nag him?

I smell a troll...

thinking about what cjb has highlighted, perhaps you are over stimulating him and he is getting over tired? Young babies actually don't need much entertaining at all and get tired very quickly if there is too much interaction. Perhaps try leaving him to his own devices for a bit? That is if you're still there OP!

Actually the grumpy 8m DS sounds exactly like my DS - he was generally in a foul temper until he finally learnt to crawl at 11m. Now back to sweetness and light!

wafflingworrier, I really, really hope you're joking...

Hi, still here, but ben ill with fever for the past two days!! Anyhow...thanks for all the replies. What I need to express however, is that I'm not in any way stuck on a rigid routine, but some structure I feel is important. Yes he's a bad sleeper, but I'd hate to think how difficult life with him would be if h didn't clue into the fact that after he has a bath, he gets his pjs on, has a bottle and goes to sleep. This is really the only thing I'm pretty strict about, and the time can vary a bit each day depending on how he's napped that day. I usually try and figure his day out so that he is asleep anywhere between 6:30pm and 7:30pm.

As for the husband problem, being ill has done me a favour. DH hashad to 'work from home' and has basically had to do everything, including look after me to a point. I've been in a duvet on the couch for 2 days, and despite feeling like crap, it's also been quite nice!