DS (nearly 12) and the 'gaming' dilemma.. Is Halo any 'better' than CoD? What about younger siblings?

[Whippet]

DH & I are not very 'pro' violent video/online games, so up to now the DSs have only had access to e.g. racing/ non-graphic fighting games on the PC/ Wii/ iPod

Since starting secondary however it's become evident to me just how big a part the discussion about games is in friendship groups etc. I brought DS1 & 4 of his friends back in the car and it was ALL they were talking about - who had which games, at what level etc.
It was very clear that DS is alienated by not having access to any of this stuff.

I am very and about having to 'bow to peer pressure' but DH & I talked about whether we should get him an Xbox (his preference over a PS3) for Xmas.
I'm just worried it will be a 'slippery slope' though. His best friend plays Halo (rated 16) all the time which DS claims is not as 'hardcore' as Call of Duty, but I'm still not sure.

Also I have no idea how we would prevent DS2 (9) from seeing/watching.
DS1 does not have TV/ computer in bedroom (and nor do we want to do this).

Would appreciate any views/ experiences/ advice.....

My DS is 11. His friends have older siblings and have seen/played various games such as CoD and Halo, I think he has seen Halo at a friend's (but I mentioned to that particular friend's mother if she was aware of it being violent, she wasn't and the game was subsequently put aside for when he is older).

My DH is an old school gamer (and programmer), but also has various more modern 16 and 18-rated games in the house, however, DS is not interested in any of that whatsoever. The main reason for this is because he is completely obsessed with Little Big Planet (PS3) Apart from playing, you can create your own levels on it, it is like very basic programming, which is the DS' main interest. Also, as with some other games, you can play it online, but with LBP, you compete in making levels/devices etc.

Erm, my point is, if your DS is at all interested in programming, introduce him to LBP, and he just won't be interested in games you can simply play rather than create yourself, IME. (but saying that, things could change when my DS starts secondary school. You can never tell).

This seems like a good resource - Commonsense Media - lets you know how games are rated, and there's also an advice section. HTH :)

That's a tricky one.

Halo is slightly less troublesome, because the foe is alien and is rated as a 16 and CoD is rated as an 18 with the violence being against humans.

By non graphic, which games are you thinking of?

It's the graphic 'real-life' type games I dislike - where there is graphic, realistic, bloody gratuitous killing of human beings (i.e. CoD..)
Also all the swearing - F-inking everything etc.
I really believe that we still don't actually know what the longer term impact of such games on kids is .... some of the published evidence certainly suggests a link between extensive gaming and agressive behaviour.

I'd rather not have them at all, but I can see that we would turn DS into social leper so I guess we will have to relent a little, but still try to 'manage' it in terms of games, timing etc.

I would say that Halo doesn't have the language issue, but what about things like Prince of Persia, Need for Speed?

Also, will it be in the family area or in his room?

I don't like CoD's for that exact reason, whippet. However I love the Elder scrolls even though the next game due out is rated 18 when the previous one was only a 15 so am a bit unsure about how much that will affect the game and my enjoyment.

SecretNutella - we would prefer it to be in the family room, but then how do I stop DS2 being exposed to it all?

I don't know much about Prince or Persia/ Need for Speed - do they have lots of bad language?

I work in the video game industry, and age ratings aren't something slapped on a box on a whim. Games have to go through strict ratings panels, just as films do and age ratings are there for a reason. Unfortunately kids are always attracted to forbidden fruits, and although the cast majority of games are family friendly, they always want the 16 or 18 rated games.

If you wouldn't let your 12 year old watch a 15 or 18 rated movie, you most definitely shouldn't let them play age inappropriate games.

not sure about need for speed. Can't remember if Prince of Persia does, but the violence isn't guns- it's swordfighting and martial arts type skills.

We're in exactly the same position , ds1(12) and ds2(8).

We've had wii up to now but ds1 really wants xbox to play halo and not be the odd one out.

I do think that halo seems to be better than COD from a language and violence aspect . We've gone for a kinect as well ( whole thing off eBay for £170!) so hopefully they'll both play other games as well.

Similarly, it will be in a downstairs rooms rather than bedroom . Ds2 will definitely see it and I'm sure we'll end up letting him play it - how can you really prevent it?
They've always played lego star wars together on wii , prince of Persia sounds good.

I think we'll have to ration him to an hour a day tops , and maybe not at all during the week else he'll become obsessed and do nothing else.

Hard to get the balance right isn't it.?

Do not, do not, do not bow to peer pressure on this one. In fact I think it's something that schools should take a stand on because irresponsible parents make it really hard for everyone else. Games are 18 rated for very good reasons. My husband and I are both gamers and there is No Way a child should be playing 18 games.

I agree with smallnotfaraway - try to divert the interest into something else.

In terms of being alienated because of not being up on the same stuff - that will always happen about something inevitably. You don't need to feel pressured to help your child be the same as everyone else. You do need to give him the tools to deal with it though. There are plenty of other hobbies - if he's rock-climbing for example he'll be meeting a whole different group of people.

Octavia - do you have a DS this age?

I was always of the opinion that we would never get games consoles, ad that our DSs would only go to Scouts/ play outside/ build Lego etc etc

And then real life intervened....

I have already told him that he's not going to be allowed to have 18 games, but that's why I was asking about Halo (rated 16).

I thought if only we could let him have 'enough' access to something that he can then talk to his friends about/play with them on, so that he is not completely alienated.

I've seen his peers whose parents have said a blanket 'no' (to all consoles) and it really does cause problems/ set them apart.
DS already has some 'social' issues in that he is one of only a few boys who doesn't really 'do' team sports, so isn't getting to talk to his mates on the rugby coach etc.

I suppose my 'take' on it now is that gaming isn't going to disappear, and it's just another thing, like alcohol, sex, cigarettes, drugs that teenagers need to know exists and learn to adopt a responsible attitude towards.
I can't help feeling that if we say 'no' to everything then he will simply spend more time at his friends houses where parental control is more lax .

It's bl**dy nightmare....

OP, there's no need for him to be a social leper because he's not doing something which is not recommended for kids of his age group. What if, in a few years time, the topic of conversation was about how many alcopops they were all drinking? Would he have to go along with the crowd just to bow down to peer pressure? You don't have to do and like absolutely everything your friends do. (disclaimer: haven't got to secondary school stage yet - could be eating my own words. ;) ) But hey, I'm thinking that it's helping to build character, which will serve well in the future, that it's ok to be different. As Octaviapink said, you need to give him the tools to be able to deal with peer pressure.

Another example from my DS - he's really, really doesn't like football, but all the boys in his class are on a scale of liking it to being completeley obsessed by football. However, he still has plenty of friends despite, even the ones who are crazy about something my DS has no interest in. There is always some common ground elsewhere, films, TV, other hobbies, what's going on at school etc.

oops. x posted there.

Yes, it is a nightmare...

I agree it is hard. But saying no is one of the primary things parenting is about. Sorry if that sounds smug - and no, mine aren't at that age yet, but I'm getting plenty of practice with 'no' at the moment.

Halo, CoD and all the other 18s are 18 for very good reasons. There are plenty of 12 rated games out there that your son can play. It is also worth bearing in mind, by the way, that lots of teenage boys are rotten boasters and may be bragging (lying) about having/playing games they don't have/play. If you were prepared to play through a 15 game to check it first yourself then I don't think that would be too bad, but the ratings are there precisely because most parents aren't willing to check games out themselves.

Octavia - we say 'no' to lots of things already lol!

However I think Small's comment : "disclaimer: haven't got to secondary school stage yet - could be eating my own words" hits the nail on the head really...

Once they get to secondary and gain some independence it begins to change quickly.
All through primary we said no to an Xbox and violent, fighting games. We did have a Wii however, and they played lots of racing and Lego/ Mariocart etc games.
I even talked to the Mums of some of his friends last year in Year 6 and said when he came over to their house he wasn't allowed to play games rated Over 12. All fine.

But come secondary it's all different. They are in and out of each others houses all the time, and I don't even know some of the mums that well.
I simply can't control what he does 24 hours a day! I can only control what happens in our house and hope that DS knows how I feel about the issue, and steers himself away from things like CoD... but it takes a strong 12 year old to distance himself from his friends like that.

DH has already said he will play any 15 games in advance to check them out BTW, so that's good.

Ds1 is nearly 15, he's played halo , got it for his 14 th b'day. He plays in with friends, and they do at least as much building stuff as shooting.
He has friends who're allowed everything, and who dont have consoles at all ( but are allowed to play here).
He's not allowed COD, because I've heard so much about it, esp about how addictive it can be, and I've told him he's never having it while he lives here, because it's my house and my choice, and I dont want it. And that I might be wrong, or illogical, but it's my call.
I feel fine about this, and he knows thats just the way it is.

Post - it sounds as if you are similar to me! It's as if I am 'making it up as we go along'. I have also said the same thing about CoD, and to be honest DS1 is pretty level headed and says he doesn't want CoD because he has seen some of his former schoolmates get obsessed with it (at 10-11 !)

Sometimes DH & I find ourselves having to 'sense-check' our 'rules' and beliefs though... 'no gun games' when they were little, and then along comes the LazerShoot parties and Nerf and then is it OK to shoot Lego figures, but not realistic-looking people?

Gah!

We're all just making our best guesses. As long as it's what you feel really comfortable with, rather than what someone else thinks, I reckon we've got the best chance of making good guesses, and you can take real responsibility for them. You don't end up feeling resentful about some other parent/ kid who's allowed COD, alcohol, staying out all night etc, because you just make your own choice.

I've found it helpful to be upfront about the fact that I'm only guessing, rather than 'I'm definitely right and COD etc is evil/ dangerous'. Then if ds thinks I'm ridiculous and wrong, I'm not telling him he's stupid, and I don't have to justify it. He can make different choices when he moves out, but while he lives here I get to decide, and I'm just doing my best because I love him.

But if it's not video games it'll be something else!

I feel your pain and completely agree with the 'guessing' thing. I hope I'm making the right decisions, even tohugh DS (only 8!) thinks I'm mean for not letting him play CoD or BattleField. I made the mistake of thinking at first that it was ok for him to be in the room when it was being played (by my DP) but I soon changed my mind when I actually watched it being played myself, so now those games don't evne go on until DS is in bed, and evne then sometimes he creeps out to watch before I catch him.

I don't want to make it into a forbidden fruit, I just think he's too young for that stuff. there's time for that once he's an adult.

For Christmas we are going to buy him a game suitable for him to play, probqably the Cars 2 game or somsthing.

The younger siblings thing is one of the reasons I am holding firm on the age rating guidelines for what DC can get. DC1 is 12, DC4 is under 4, I did let DS play a bit of modern warfare COD2 at a cousin's house 2 years ago, and that was enough for me to know I wouldn't want my 4-5yo watching it on a regular basis.

What about the Rock Band (or Guitar Hero) games? My DCs are younger than yours but DH and loads of our adult mates will happily play the various flavours of Rock Band all day - it's really multi-player friendly, the Lego version in particular can be as difficult or easy as you like so your younger DS and his mates can play, and you can get versions specialising in your DS's favourite bands,, the peripherals can be picked up pretty cheap nowadays and the only thing you have to worry about in terms of content is the occasional sexist lyric.

I too totally feel your pain OP..
I've got a just 12 Ds1 in yr 7, who was in exactly the same position. It became obvious quite quickly that the sole topic of conversation on the 45 min coach journey was PS3/Xbox games. As he had a lot of savings he decided to buy a PS3 with this and his birthday money, a big decision, as it totally cleared out his bank account. The game compromise is that he can only play 15 games.
At the moment he is playing Fifa 12, Gran Turismo and Assasins Creed Brotherhood. The last one is the fighting / killing game but it historical, Romans I think, and doesn't seem so gratuitous. It's also a 15.
We also have a 10yr old ds (yr 6) who watches but doesn't really want to play...so at the moment I'm feeling happy with the level we're at, as does Ds1 who is now included.
If you don't want to 9 yr old to see, have you thought about different bedtimes? Ds1 could have 1/2 hour more now he is at secondary and use this time to play these games.

I'm nowhere near this point, but DH is a gamer. I'm fairly sure he was bought up on tough you have to be the right age, no matter what anyone else is doing, and he certainly doesn't seem to feel he missed out! (He is a cheery soul though )

Have you looked at Mass Effect? It's a 12, exploring space and fighting type jobbie. If you want to have a fighting game around so he doesn't feel left out, it's the one I'd pick.

He also says, btw that he thinks Halo has a higher rating because of the multiplayer option.

I think, being honest that I would allow at the point that I would allow them to watch that rating of film. So I would probably let a 13 yo play Halo, because I would probably let them watch the Matrix if they really wanted to. I might let a 16yo watch some 18 rated films, so I might let them play some 18 rated games. It would really depend what the individual game was.

OTOH, I'm not sure that I would let them play online. It will depend how good the controls and filters are at that point, not something I can say for sure one way or another now!