5mo not sleeping...no idea what else to try...at wits end :o(

[misspiggy17]

Hello, this is my first post as a mumsnetter. You were recommended by friends so hoping you can help!
I'm a first time mum to a 5mo. I am breastfeeding. During the day he is on a 4 hourly feeding schedule, has 2 naps a day and has started solids (3 small meals as in a couple of teaspoons alongside his milk at each meal). Putting him to bed is fine, he has his bedtime routine and sometimes he falls asleep at the breast, sometimes not but if he's put in his cot awake or not he dozes off without too much fuss. Sounds like an angel...

During the night the minimum number of times he has gotten up is twice (that was a few weeks ago) but each night it ranges from 3 - 6 times a night. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the number of times - we can do the same schedule, put him in the same bedtime clothes, same temperature in the room and one night it will be 3 awakenings, the next 6. DS has been breastfed and took a bottle early on but when he excitement of DS wore off, so did people to feed him from the bottle and he hasn't had a bottle for at least two months now and wont take one. We're trying from a cup but with no joy.

Because he wont take a bottle, no-one else can take him for a night. My DH has just recently started trying to rock DS to sleep instead of offering him the breast each time he wakes but this was only after a huge argument as I haven't had a stint of more than 4h sleep in 5 months. DH has tried 3 times and passed DS back to me each time to send him to sleep as he has no success. I dont know what else to try as dont seem to be getting any help from any other area. I'm not against formula, and have tried it but he wont take the bottle or cup which leaves me resorting to the boob. He's too young to sleep train but this past weekend I spent the whole thing crying because I'm just so exhausted.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I genuinely have no idea what to do. My HVs are no help and have said he's just 'one of those babies' and I have to work with him, the problem is on so little sleep I cant work with him anymore :(

Can you give him another feed in the day? 4 hourly seems like a long break to me - he could be hungry. DS at that age was on 3 hours or so, sometimes less.

You could also have a feed at 10pm ish and reduce the timings of other feeds when he wakes up - so reduce by a minute at a time every night to slowly wean off the boob. Sleep near him so it's not a big thing to get up and feed him (very tiring). You might need another feed at 4/5am for now too.

Hello Iggly, thanks for your suggestion - I can give that a go! The 4-hourly is rough. Anything over 2.5h he gets fed when he wants it and as long as it's a long feed, I class that as a feed so if he popped on for a top up after 2h just for 5mins, I wouldn't class that as a feed. Recently he hasn't wanted anything before 4h generally (I put it down to starting him on his solids so his little belly was a bit fuller).

We do a feed at 10pm/11pm ish because he always wakes then, always wakes around 2am and always around 5am with anyone's guess at how many other times in between. We have him in his own nursery so that I don't go in the second he cries to give him time to settle himself.

Have you read the 'no cry sleep solution' lots of mothers really like it.

There is no reason to it other than he is too young to be reasonable:) sleep can be encouraged but is developmental too. Ignore those who promise otherwise, children are as profoundly different in when they do this as when they do everything else.

What could help in the short term? Daytime naps, bed sharing, feeding lying down? Have you tried all of these? His sleeppattern isn't at all unusual for a baby of his age often even those who have slept for longer can regress around this age. It will improve.

I would offer more milk feeds too, they can get distracted and not ask then get used to feeding more at night.

Hi bangcrash - what's the jist of the no cry sleep solution?

Daytime naps I've tried but I'm just not able to sleep in the day. Bed sharing drove my DH insane so I was tired and moaned at. We can get him to sleep feeding lying down but cant get him back into his cot without him looking like he's been given a dose of pro plus.

At the moment he's woken 2h after going down, I've fed him but he is so wide awake so DH is trying to rock him to sleep but I can hear the hystrionics from here :(

Co-sleep and feed lying down! Once we got that sussed I started to get a lot more sleep as I was able to go back to sleep once baby was latched on. It saved my sanity. My DS (8m) is still unpredictable with how many times he wants feeding in a night, but provided a boob is in the vicinity, and he's allowed to latch on when he stirs, he'll sleep from 7pm-7am. I am far too lazy to bother trying other methods of comforting him as I get back to sleep sooner if I just put him on the breast, even if it's not for a full feed and more comfort seeking behaviour. If you don't have a large enough bed, send DH off to the spare room/sofa. He'll get more sleep too and won't moan at you for co-sleeping.

Not read it personally... Well started and concluded that keeping a sleep diary was way worse than night wakings.

If day naps are out is there another bed you can shift dh to...it is just a phase:) one of mine was the same, I just gave in. Used to get him back up when wakeful and take him to bed when I went. Sleeps solidly these days. Sometimes expectations are easier to change than babies. You are made of tough stuff to be getting up every time it is soooooo much easier if you don't have to get out of bed.

You poor thing. Sounds horrendous.

I have not had experience of this sleeping problem so unable to offer advice, but I do know that you are not alone. You posted in the parenting forum, but there is a sleep forum. I checked it out a few weeks ago. DS began early waking. It was a good support and provided me with info. We did cc (he is 14 months), and worked perfectly after one night (he is still asleep as I write this, having gone to bed at 7!). I am absolutely NOT remotely suggesting cc for a 5 month old. I am saying that it might be worth posting in Sleep, for guidance, support and maybe advise. X

I know you cant sleep when he naps in the day but you can sit down and rest. Do not feel obliged to do anything - sleep and rest are your priorities right now.

I'd consider sleeping in his room because it sounds like he's waking up by the time you get there, especially if you're trying to let him self settle.by the sounds of it, he won't at the moment - but it'll come later. I remember I used to lie there and pray DS would go back to sleep at that age. Rarely he did (could usually tell after a few seconds) then one night at 6 months he slept until 3am! Without us doing anything.

If you don't want to co-sleep, I would persevere with the bottle. Your DS has had them before and that way, your DH can do a shift that is long enough for you to get a chunk of sleep. Have you got enough rooms in your house so that you sleep with DS and do the night as normal (and as everyone says without you having to get out of bed), while your DH sleeps uninterrupted in another room? Then I would suggest switching at e.g. 5AM. DS is then given his first feed of the day by DH, while you sleep until e.g. 9 or 10. You might have to do it the other way round with you going to bed early and DH doing the late feed and until midnight or 1AM, depending on when your DH has to go to work. Even if your DS refuses the bottle at first he won't starve in that short window of time, it is only max. 1 hour longer than his usual feed window, and he might cotton on very quickly. If he's refusing the bottle, he's not that hungry. He may be mightily pissed off but at the end of the day, he is not newborn and there are three of you in the family. You will feel ever so much better if you can have this four- or five-hour chunk of uninterrupted sleep. And a grumpy DH who hasn't slept is worse than doing the whole night yourself, so while it is not romantic I would put DH somewhere he can sleep properly when it is his turn to do so.

Our DD went through periods of bottle refusal - we always gave her a bottle once a day in order to try and avoid it as I travel quite a lot, but she still did it from time to time. She managed 10 hours once - obviously we'd have caved in before that normally but I'd gone to Paris, so nothing for it but to press on through. DH phoned doc! who said don't worry, just keep offering it. DH said in the early evening she suddenly drank the bottle as if nothing had ever been the matter and that was the end of the hunger strike...and she was perfectly happy throughout the day even while it was going on, playing laughing etc, just roared whenever he offered bottle, cup, spoon etc...