Was I too harsh on my 3 year old today?

[Arachnophobic]

my boss seems to think so, we are friends.

My son has been a nightmare lately, answering back, calling us names and being really cheeky. He has an answer for everything.

Today, I wouldn't let him put fresh clothes on before dinner, rather wanting him to put his dressing gown on. He had wet his old clothes, no problem with that, but as it's bath time after dinner no pint putting fresh clothes on before.

Well all hell broke loose and it was like a scene from super nanny, screaming and shouting at me at the top of his voice. I consider myself lucky he didn't whack me, which has happened in the past.

He was so wild I took his cars away, his favourite toys. That didn't work so he went to time out. That didn't work so he then got no choc coins after dinner, which is what he wanted . He didn't even ask me for books before bedtime, which is the norm, because he knew the answer he would get.

He refused to apologise before bed. She he went to bed at 18.30. Half an hour early.

I am at a loss knowing what to do tbh, I have been told by several he has a very strong personality. I have to watch him like a hawk I feel when we are out with other kids, because if they cross him in any way he lashes out. On Monday he pinched one of his friends. He got a warning. Second time he got heavy handed with a plastic hammer so he went to time out. I said to him anything else we were going home. Nothing else happened.

Yet the nursery swear they have no issues with him. Behaviour or otherwise.

Seems he is only a little shite with me. Yet he gets lots of one to one with me.

We are moving house at the moment so going thru a transition but he seems genuinely excited about this, we have shown him his room and everything.

Anyone had experience of this? I genuinely wonder whether I am doing the right thing and/or if I am going wrong.

Sorry for the ramble.

I would put it dwn to normal 3 year old behaviour, testing boundaries etc AND the move - Hellish combination! Been there, done it and now dreading looking forward to DS2 hitting that lovely age. Dont beat yourself up over it, being a parent is bloody hard

He's only 3
It's his job to be contrary
Why wouldn't you let him wear clothes to dinner? He probably didn't want to be the odd one out sitting in his dressing gown

Nope, you were not too harsh on him at all.

My DS1 was very similar - still has a vile temper at 14 which is always worse if he is tired, hungry or if he's worried about something. I can't say we always got it right, but the key is consistency and carrying out any threats you make (which you are obviously doing, so well done you!). What we did was draw up a list of consequences and put them somewhere he could see them, and referred to that when he misbehaved. We also had paper tokens that he made, which he was given when he behaved well - a certain number of tokens each week = a treat. Maybe worth a try?

Maisie this is exactly what I am concerned about- my DS is obviously very confident with a strong personality which in many senses is a good thing, but I wonder how he will manage his temper in his teens. Are you able to manage your son effectively if you don't mind my asking? Does your reward system work?

You sound quite angry and stressed tbh, referring to him as a "little shite"

fwiw my 4 year old would have been a bit if she had wet herself and then I wanted her to put pjs on. Yes to you and me it makes sense and saves laundry, but in the grand scheme of things I would have let this go.

So, you decided to have this battle with him; he got angry. You then issued 4 punishments (removal of favourite toys; time out; witholding of chocolate coins; not permitted bedtime stories). Oh and then early bed.

I too have a strongminded child. Sometimes I am overly-harsh, because I think I worry if I let certain things "go" then she will become more strongminded.

However even by my standards I think you over reacted. Bottom line is he was not unreasonable to want to wear day clothes and you made an issue of it.

cj trying to keep the washing down before the move, didn't want clean fresh clothes on to get messy over dinner then straight in the bath and bed afterwards. It was only him and me at dinner.

A 3/4 year old child doesn't care about the laundry! On a bad day I would have been very frustrated like you were.

one piece it wasn't 4 punishments for not wearing the dressing gown, it was a punishment following each incident of bad behaviour.

You are right however, I am worried at times that at times I let too much go so possibly took too much of a stance this time.

Didn't help my Grandma telling me yesterday that I let him get With too much and that I have left it too late to impose discipline! She thinks I should smack, I totally disagree.

Why did you keep on issuing punishments? You're implying they're conditional punishments - unless he calms down, then he will have even greater punishments heaped on him. And he knows that, so he gets more hysterical because he knows worse is to come.

sorry, I think you're really escalating his behaviour.

Have you read 'How to Talk so Kids Listen'? It's bloody brilliant for teaching you how to diffuse a situation - it takes it out of the realm of point-scoring and control which I think is a really easy spiral to get into with 3 YOs.

Also, don't underestimate how unsettling a move can be. My DS was very keen to move in a lot of ways when we moved this time last year (he was 3.9) but he was really, really angry just before and after the move.

Thanks Christine perhaps I can download that book. Cheers.

I think that from his perspective it probably was 4 punishments for the original "crime". Certainly my 4 year old would have perceived it that way.

Possibly after the first punishment he was worked up into a frenzy and was not really able to calm down anyway. (well this is how my 4 year old gets anyway, she would quickly become hysterical and there would be no reasoning possible. It would be unkind imo to do anything but try and comfort her by this stage)

It is very hard when you get unhelpful and unsolicited advice from gps (or in my case ils)

I like the paper tokens Maise... off to get some coloured paper and pencils

I don't think you were too harsh. I have a 3yo and some days/weeks they are just like this. It makes you feel terrible, and you wonder how you could have dealt with it better, and whether you were too harsh.

FWIW, I use all of your techniques - toy removal and no bedtime stories mainly, and time out for serious things like physical violence. I never give a chance for physical stuff though - if my DS pinched somebody he'd be straight to time out. It seems to underline the seriousness of it for my DS.

Also however excited your DS is about the move, he will be feeling unsettled by it. My DS has just come out the other side of a terrible 6 weeks which coincided with starting a new preschool and starting a few new activities and me being around home a bit more - basically a big shift in his routine - accompanied by builders coming into our house. Although he was excited about the new things, these changes completely threw him and his behaviour was appalling, answering back, hitting his sister, screaming at me. It was my worst period as a parent but we're more or less out the other side now he's settled down.

My advice is to be consistent with how you punish and keep boundaries in place, as that is particularly important as other things change in his life. But at the same time try to let a few smaller things go. I also find sometimes humour can help with my DS to calm a situation before it escalates.

Good luck!

it sounds like you have got into a really negative cycle. where is the incentive for him to be behave, to be nice? maybe he has given up trying because he feels like nothing he can do is right so he's going to get punished what ever he does?

the more i push my 3yr old, the more he digs his heels in. his behaviour is nothing like your 3yr old but the minute we get in a negative cycle of bad behaviour, punishment, more bad behaviour, more punishment then the only thing that stops it is to have a total change of scenary and do things totally different - be nice, make a game of it, be positive. if i do one small game or activity with him then he is a different child, just spending time with him and giving him the opportunity to achieve something makes him so happy and proud of himself he is then on his best behaviour.

pick your battles. so what if there is another couple of items in the wash - i have 3 boys and a mountain of washing (and my machine was out of action last week!) but was it really worth the tantrum to keep a couple of extra items out the wash?

Good luck :)
Someone sent me some charts to remind me what to do re How To Talk (might have been Peachy?) If I can find them, I will PM you (or PM me to nag me)

I agree with others that the 4 punishments was too much. I have a few thoughts to offer, feel free to ignore any/all of them;

• if this is a recent change in his behaviour, is he also stressed about moving? Even if he's excited, that can cause him to behave in a more excitable way.

• when you are discussing his behaviour with your boss/nanna/friends, is he listening...if he is then he is effectively getting attention for behaving badly. Both from you and other people.

• have you tried planned ignoring? In a nutshell that means you ignore all unwanted behaviour (other than harm to people or property) and then praise as soon as you see wanted behaviour. Generally stepping up praise for good behaviour is an effective way to get more of it to. So today, when he screamed and shouted at you about his dressing gown, you simply leave his dressing gown with him, say 'I will talk to you when you have your dressing gown on' and then walk away from him. Lock yourself in the bathroom for a few minutes, or busy yourself in another room, whatever works for you. As soon as he does as he's asked you give smiles, hugs and lots of praise.

As far as possible, try to ignore other people's 'helpful' advice. You are the expert on your child, and you decide how to discipline him. No way at 3 is it too late to impose discipline.

Another good book is Tanya Byron's 'Little Angels'. Lots of helpful suggestions from an expert who is passionately against smacking.

Good luck x

natural this was one incident today. I do reward good behaviour - last week he was bought cars as he did well at swimming, I also make a fuss when he does something good or behaves well. Last night he was good at a friends so I thanked him alla the waybhome. Today's argument was very unusual, I am not usually so strict....but I have been worried that I have been letting our son boss us about too muc. He is very bossy and more often than ot we are parents that have let him joss us around. So I did dig my heels in today, possibly wrongly I concede.

On the way home, not all the way home!

I think when he misbehaves you need to take a deep breath and calm down. It's not just modelling bad behaviour when you lose your temper but you are actually pumping hormones out that will affect his stress levels and escalate things. If you lose your temper he becomes literally incapable of behaving because he's flooded with your rage. It is a stressful time for you, with the move coming up, but calm and warmth from you will help him a lot.

Ignore your grandmother, it's never too late to teach good behaviour, but you do need to pick your battles and to be consistent (letting him get away with something one day and punishing it the next is just unfair.)

For instance, instead of going to war over the pyjamas, why not just make a game of it and you have supper in your pjs too? I agree with the earlier poster who said that kids are generally ashamed when they've had an accident and he may have felt that having to get dressed in pyjamas was punishment. His clothes wouldn't have got that dirty over supper and he could have worn the same set the next day - no extra laundry at all.

Not too harsh. I suspect your days with him are generally good. He is just being 3. I note that you mention when you dicipline him such as saying you hit again, we go home and he stops. He is testing and needs to learn limits. It will settle down eventually but some kids test more but he will be less stressed if he knows you will set limits for him.

I don't think you were harsh in what you were asking of him. Children can't have their way all the time and if you said PJ's/dressing gown on then, sorry but so be it! You had your reasons (wasn't like you said it just to annoy him) and that's fine. If I'd have asked my child, I would have expected it to be done.

Once he started his tantrum though, I probably wouldn't have then taken his cars off him, fuelling his annoyance further. I'd have ignored I think. Making it clear that you are not changing your mind and he can scream and shout all he likes but it doesn't achieve anything, I think helps them eventually to realise that the behaviour is pointless.