Need to rant re people reaction to OPOL

[StoneBaby]

We are an OPOL family with my language (French) being the minority one. I am started to get fed up with the comments I or DH get from people who don't understand that a child don't automaticly come with English!
DS is 20 months old and so far I got:

• Do you think he understand you when you speak French to him? (from a friend who knows we're OPOL!)
• Do you translate into English everything you tell him?
• So you're teaching him French too?
• How can he understnad what you're telling him?

If I was to get those comments once in a while I could cope but I hear them so often that I just want to tell people to think for just 1 second before they make those comments.

Sorry just needed to rant before I explode!!!

OP, do you live in a remote place? That is a lot of nonsense in a short time.

I am quite consistant with OPOL as I fear my DCs will switch to English if I am not, and I have experienced many families where that has happened. At the moment my DCs (6 and 3) are bilingual and seem to prefer German (the minority language). They speak it to me, to each other, to anyone who is fluent and will normally choose to watch films in German if there is a choice.

I was particularly annoyed by comments made when DS was about 3 yo. SIL thought that he will be behind with his English in school. I am German, DP is British and we live in the UK!

BIL said to DS (3 at the time): So, you have been learning some German! How do you say 'egg' in German? DS starred at him and said: 'egg'! At that age it hadn't occured to him that he spoke two languages, he just used the code he was spoken to, and if someone practiced their German on him he would know and reply in English.

I think whether children know it's two languages or not depends on how much you talk about these issues with them. Dd certainly knew that when she was 2, but that's because we used to talk about it. Her party trick when she was just turned 2 was to do what your BIL wanted your ds to do and translate from one language to another.

gabid I live in the Channel Islands, so not so remoted.

I am nodding and smiling at those comments but from time to time I just would like to tell people to think before making those comments!

SB you are giving your DS a wonderful gift in enabling him to speak and understand more than one language. Ignore the comments, most people will be impressed a few years down the line when he's able to communicate as easily in French as in English.

Sorry, I've just posted this in another thread, but then saw this one and thought it more appropriate here.

I'm quite interested in this because I am trying to get my Dutch husband to teach our 18 month old twins Dutch. I am English (and can't speak Dutch) and we live on the other side of the world.

I understand some of his reluctance as he left Holland when they were 10, so he says that his Dutch is at the level of a 10 year old (although he coped extremely well when we visited there a couple of years ago.

However, I keep trying to persuade him by telling him how useful it would be for the girls and that it's one of my biggest annoyances, that I can't speak another language to any decent level and I want them to have that skill without having to 'learn it".

He says that he doesn't want to because it's wrong if I can't speak it too. I've said that I'm sure that I would be able to pick some of it up. When I said to his mother (with whom I REALLY struggle) that I would like it if she and her husband would speak Dutch to the girls, she looked at me with bemusement and asked whatever for? Her other grandchildren don't speak it, so why should these two? I bit back the retort that I wanted to make, that what I don't give two hoots about what their parents have decided, it's my children that I am bothered about. She thinks that it's pointless and that it won't be of any benefit to them at all. In my opinion, it's a stupid stupid point of view.

This posting hijack is really to ask if anyone has any tips for helping me to persuade them - well, I think that she's a loss but I really can't give up on my husband doing it yet.

Please help!

Learning another language facilitates brain development to a greater degree. More neurons will make more connections to other neurons. Your child will derive major benefit in her ability to think just from having two languages.

Knowing another language also helps you to understand your own better. In bi-lingual children that means that they willl understand two languages better as both are equally important. It will also help in learning more languages. The more languages you learn, the easier it is to learn another one. The more languages you can speak, the better your job prospects.

Do you think that's enough?

Really interesting thread; StoneBaby, when we lived in France, mine (English) was the minority language, so I got a few of those comments, although more of the "luck" ones, seeing as how everyone in France seems to want their kids to learn English. Again, it's just a case of adults projecting themselves into the position of the child and really, they're asking the question about themselves : "would I understand someone talking a foreign language to me?". What they fail to realise is that to our children, it's NOT a foreign language, it's just part of the landscape of their upbringing, and another way of expressing themselves. There are much more confusing things taught to kids than simultaneous languages (I mean after all, they have nappies on for ages then one day have to learn to sit on a potty...I could see that being tricky to get a young mind around!).

Littlemisscontrary,
I must say I can understand if you are not living in a Dutch environment and your husband has not lived in a Dutch environment since he was 10 years old, that your husband may find it very uncomfortable speaking Dutch to his children. The advantages of bilingualism are many and can't think of any negatives, but if your children's only access to Dutch is going to be your husband and he now is more comfortable in English (that I am only guessing), it really would be a heck of an effort on his part. I'd look for other sources of Dutch too, if your only source is hubby, if you can convince hubby, as your children ideally need some exposure outside that one parent - in this situation you often find children will pick up their parent's language, they will understand it all, but they will possibly "refuse" to speak it back.

On Jux's point that bilingualism makes it easier to learn other languages, well yes from the experience of our 4 children here in "bilingual" Brussels, the younger 3 speak French very very well, but when it comes to Dutch, our 9 year old has learned Dutch for 3 years at school, yet she is still at a level a quite a bit lower than GCSE, our 13 year old could just about pass GCSE I imagine. Well having fluency in 2 languages has meant they are not at all scared by the 3rd language of Dutch, but they are nowhere near fluent in it either, they only get exposed to it for a few hours a week at school and daily watching Disney channel in Dutch. Dutch is definitely a "foreign" language to them still.

OP you have my sympathy. We live in a Spanish speaking country where DD1 is educated 100% in Spanish (apart from terrible school English lessons which is another story). She spent the first 2 years of her life in the UK so English was her "first" language, I would say even now she is more fluent in English than Spanish, though Spanish speakers say she is fluent in Spanish.

DD2 is still small so spends most time with me, and thus speaks more English, at the moment.

But I get the same comments when I speak to them in English... " does she understand what you're saying to her" etc. Aren't you going to translate?

To be honest it makes me more determined to speak to them in English, whether we're alone or in public. It's the language I'm most comfortable with and how else are they going to learn to speak well if I don't set an example.

I would say don't pay any attention to well meaning critics, if you value the relationship then explain to them that research supports this method. If not, then just ignore them. But remember just what a huge gift you are giving.

Have found this thread - its really interesting. Now I know I grew up in an OPOL family :)

As an adult I am so grateful my mum spoke and brought me up speaking Polish - although she would say I was distinctly ungrateful when going to Saturday morning Polish school! I have absolutely no memory of difficulty with language, coping at school or being able to communicate with other kids or adults. I think it has been useful for me - not that I use it often but it is handy when I go see mum who has moved back there and possibly helped me with a confidence around learning/picking up other languages at school or as an adult. I'd be a liar if it didn't feel kind of cool being able to drop into another language for friends amusement in the pub!

So when thinking about starting my own family I've always had the plan at the back of my mind to only use Polish with my kids. I just hope my faltering Polish is up to scratch and I don't keep having to phone my mum! (Like I did when I got my first job, which required use of Polish and then I realised I had no business vocabulary at all so I had to ring her from the toilets if I couldn't find a word in my dictionary!!!!)

Good luck to everyone doing this - honestly now I feel so privileged I am bilingual...
And I will now also be prepared for the inevitable comments when people think I am crazy for speaking in such a random language to my (future!) kids!!!

Oh, in Luxembourg even the busdrivers speak fluent Letzebuerg, French and German. The education system teaches first in Letzebuerg, but switches to French and German regularly so by the time children go to secondary school they get for example maths in French, history in German and that kind of thing. Funny to see a child doing its homework though .

Our child, when we have children, will need to learn three languages: Dutch, English (hubby) and German because that's where we live. Although we would like to send our child to school in either the UK or in Dutch, European school. We don't like German parochial education here (near Saarland).

Other than that, I have never ever heard those comments. It must be because I'm from Belgium then . The OPOL idea took off in couples which were mixed French and Dutch speaking and thought it would be rather easy for their children in this country.

I once saw a docu about Switzerland and it explained that the Swiss do their best to teach everyone four languages, but that people stay monolingual because of sheer unwillingness. They have prejudices towards 'the other group' and thus refuse to learn the language they are taught (a little bit like the Hungarians and Russian). I don't know if that is true, so please correct if this is not true.

Just to wave a flag for multi-lingualism in the UK or at least London, no one ever blinks an eye when I talk French to my son at the playground/shop etc because they are usually too busy talking to their child in whatever language they speak, it's not unusual to hear parents speaking Bengali, Spanish, Polish and Somali at the children's centre and then everyone singing in English, no one ever says it will hold them back. In fact it is the monolingual children who are in the minority in most schools, but of course the minority languages are all different. I just wish the education system valued all these languages more.

StuckInTheFensAwayFromHome thank you for your message.
I'm bringing my dd up speaking Polish and dragging her every Saturday to Polish school, which she doesn't appreciate at the moment. Here is me hoping that she may actually be grateful in the future.

At the risk of belittling key events in Swiss history, I think the reasons the Hungarians (and Czechs, and Poles ...) were unwilling to learn russian ran a little deeper than the prejudices towards other language communities that one may find in Switzerland!

"I just wish the education system valued all these languages more."

I do so agree. I was to learn recently that top UK universities do not count A-levels taken by native speakers in their mother-tongue, nor A-levels in foreign languages taken by British students with prolonged residence in the country of the language. The bilingual student's second language is entirely discounted by many top universities when counting UCAS points.

Really??? That's terrible and shows a fundamental ignorance of what a language A-level actually involves.

What's their take on Welsh vs English then? For students in WME I mean.

How absolutely stupid, Bonsoir!

'It will also help in learning more languages'
That's actually not been our experience, disappointingly. DD1 is a balanced bilingual German-English (has been educated at a two-language school so has learned to read/write in both as a native speaker) and started French four years ago. I don't think her French now is any better than mine was after that length of time. However, the French teaching at her school is appallingly old-fashioned rote learning and verb endings, and bilinguals are no better off with that than the rest of us. I do think bilinguals have fewer inhibitions about speaking a foreign language in context, though, so I would assume that if she were to go to France on an exchange visit she would be better equipped to accept the language and fit in, and would thus learn it quicker.

The problem with stupid comments is not restricted to OPOL families. We speak only English at home and German is the 'outside' language, but if strangers hear us talking English among ourselves they comment 'oh, what a good idea, that will really improve her grades in English lessons at school', blissfully unaware that she does English at native-speaker level and not as a foreign language, and more importantly, we talk English to them because that is the language we feel most comfortable with, not to give them a slight academic advantage.

Ignore. Much harder when families are involved, but you're not going to win this one.

I care for a 2 & 3 yr old who have a mother who speaks her mother tongue and a father who speaks English. They can understand conversations being carried out in 2 languages, they can speak both languages fluently (interestingly one speaks to the mother in English and the other in her home language). Every so often they ask me to translate (google) a word that they have only learned in one language, but VERY rarely. I think it's fab.

not opol here, because we speak one language at home. but the silly comments we sometimes get...
when talking to my children in our language when other children/parents are around: that is so rude, I can't understand what you are saying to your child (mostly by english parents)

We get the "Oh you speak to them in Chinese. That's such a useful language." It makes me want to ask if they are accusing us of being mercenary. I remember the days when you were laughed at for learning such a dead-end language. ( and still )

This is so interesting.
I'm British /only English speaking & dp is French / bilingual in both.
We're expecting dc in June &, even tho my French is rubbish, dp will spk to dc only in french& me only English (opol) & we'll expect dc to answer dp in french & me in English.
I'm furious about the stupid people on the planet who think this has anything other than a positive effect/experience for the child.
Perhaps they are, in fact, just jealous????

I take heart from all the positive comments on here. It's great to know we're not alone. X

"that is so rude, I can't understand what you are saying to your child (mostly by english parents)"

"That's interesting. Luckily, it's a private conversation and so none of your fucking business."

I have yet to get any of these comments but, if I do, I hope I will be brave enough to use a riposte along those lines!

I favour "phew, because I was telling dd you've got a face like a smacked arse" (which actually is something I have said to dd in English when having to deal with monolingual eejits.

The thing about A'levels not being counted wasn't the case when I was at uni. There was a bilingual Spanish English girl with us doing Spanish, having done Spanish A level.