Feel wanted NOT - or how do I get rid of my need to control things - VERY LONG and possibly petty

[arabella2]

My ds is just 4, my dd is 20 months old and we are expecting another baby for March next year. Dd and ds go to sleep in the same bed either with me or dh or sometimes both of us. Normally dd gravitates to dh for the cuddle which will put her to sleep and normally ds towards me or up until now anyway. I think I have lost a lot of the joy of parenting. Up until dd was born ds and I were inseparable but the arrival of dd put a strain on that. Anyway, I think now I have become obsessed with things that I want to do round the house and I don't think I am giving ds everything that he needs in terms of attention - eg. he watches too much tv and I find it quite hard being with him a lot because though he is lovely, he is also quite demanding of attention. If dd is asleep I can read him stories etc... but if she is awake they do entertain each other a bit but it is as if he has no idea what to do unless someone tells him. I get very tired over a long day and find the fighting which does happen between them over toys etc... wearing. Anyway I am kind of veering off the point here. Though I am usually patient, I can at times lose my temper when ds repeatedly does things I have asked him not to. Tonight was kind of a case in point. It was about 8.30 - 9.00pm and both of them were tired. I was changing dd's nappy and putting her pyjamas, meanwhile dh was making no attempt whatsoever to get ds ready but was working on the computer and also doing kiddy things with him. I asked him if he would put ds's pjs on and he said he wasn't going to "play that game" by which he means he doesn't want both of us stressed out by the going to bed thing... (yes so he is the good guy who plays games etc...), anyway I insisted getting riled up but in the mean time I told ds that he couldn't do any more colouring, that it was bed time, that he could take his own clothes off (he is always insisting that everything is done for him) and that daddy would put his pyjamas on while I made both kids hot milk. Anyway, dh did put his pjs on and then we went upstairs to brush teeth (me, ds and dd). Then on the way upstairs ds did the thing he always does which drives me mad - rushes to get in front of me and dd and then blocks our way lying down on the stairs moving REALLY slowly. So I'm going MOVE, MOVE, MOVE - not shouting but kind of firm and annoyed because I get this every time I go upstairs with him. Next thing he does is block the gate by lying down so I can't close it (also always does this). So MOVE, he moves a bit but not enough so I picked him up not over gently by one arm (my other hand was occupied with their drinks). Then we get to the bathroom and as usual ds has to be BEGGED to go to the toilet even though it was a while since his last wee - he was insisting he would brush his teeth first and have more of his milk (as dd with nappy on was already doing hers). So again I'm like nooo, first toilet then teeth otherwise you have to wash your hands twice. Again takes him ages - I pull his pjs down for him but he pulled them back up. Then I start with unless you go to the toilet now we can't go and see friend in two days (I know, ridiculous), also, "unless you go to the toilet we are going to bed without you"... Then eventually agrees he will go when I start counting to 5 but "pull my trousers down" he says. Tries for a bit, says nothing is coming but then of course a pee does come. By this point I am quite wound up. Dd wants to start playing with her brush under the bathtub tap and I say no, I start panicking about her going on and on with things so try to get ds to finish - so not really being nice about anything but just trying to get it done. Have to take dd's brush off her because she is about to take it upstairs so she is not happy about that. Squeezed ds's hand too hard while drying them after we had washed them. (In the midst of all this I apologised to him several times about picking him up by one arm). Anyway then ds goes back downstairs I'm like bed - now, now, now but he has gone to ask dh if he will come and lie with us as well and he "cannot sleep without...".
So dh does come up and I am wondering why it has to take two adults to put them to sleep. For the first time in a long time ds leans towards dh for his cuddle and dd does the same. However I am used to her going to sleep with him and she "shares herself out evenly" in all kinds of ways - I am more "shocked" by ds not lying (spelling) at all close to me as he usually does.
So there we are, dd and ds fighting about who is going to be closest to dh and me far away on edge. Dh said something about dd going to lie with me and then ds said yes "behind her" (so that he could also be near me). But I got up and said dh should lie in the middle. Dh said something about me "playing a game" (he is fond of using this meaningless phrase) but I said why should I stay there if they both wanted to sleep with him. Anyway, went to have a shower and cried while I was there. When I came out both kids were asleep. Dh is now downstairs.
I just think I am viewing ds as too much of a JOB and not enough a pleasure. Whereas I think dh and I should really have our own bedroom which ds and dd can come to if they like, dh is very happy sleeping with them (we have two mattresses on the floor in a big room). Sometimes dh and I manage some time together on one, but invariably we either get kids between us or next to us or one of us ends up sleeping on their mattress. Even worse sometimes the person who puts them to sleep ends up staying there all night and the other person is on their own on the other mattress. So for dh, dd and ds are EVERYTHING and I think I am somewhere there lower on the list, for me, I do love dd and ds a lot but I want more balance in my life and to share a bed more often with dh because when we do we get on better.
I can understand that ds wanted dh because he had just got a lot of negative stuff off me but it annoys me that I should have the stressful stuff of getting them ready and then dh can waltz upstairs being all loving and they want him. Like before dinner ds and dd were fighting over a little chair they both wanted to stand on and I come over and have a go at ds because he is trying to push her off (she was there first). Meanwhile dh is in the other room working on the computer (he is always on the computer or working outside the home) and waits till the absolute LAST MINUTE to come to the table even though I had been calling him for a while.
So in the shower I was thinking that I had better re-vamp how I do things with ds as I don't want to be a humourless boring do this do that don't do this and that kind of parent.
We are planning to put ds and dd in their own single beds in the same room and the room is almost ready but how on earth that will ever work I don't know.
I feel as if I produce the babies and at first they really like me but now I am this thing that just wants to get things done and have some free time (ie. evening) and I think I have lost sight of the joy of it all. I have a lot of fun with dd during the day especially when ds is at nursery but then she is a lot less demanding. Nor do I want my kids to take over EVERYTHING including every ounce of a relationship I have with my dh.
I feel sad that ds didn't mind at all when I went downstairs... and I can't believe how much time I have wasted thinking about getting rid of stuff in the house. This is partly dh's fault as he is always going on about how messy it is - actually it has been bad but it is much better now but still some stuff to clear away, but this is hardly the stuff of life.
Anyway, I don't know if anyone can make any sense of this or even if they want to it is so ginormously long and potentially meaninglessly petty. I think I am at a crossroads psychologically in a way and need some guidance about where to go...

Phew.

Ok a few points:

8.30 - 9.00 is WAY too late for them to be going to bed. My dds aged 7 and 8 go at 7.30 and 8.00 respectively. At four they were going to bed at about 6pm.

You need to get them into their own bedroom otherwise no-one will get any sleep when the baby comes along. You need to do it asap so that they have chance to adjust before the baby is born. Someone else will give you advice on how to manage this change - I've never done co-sleeping so I am not well-placed to advise.

You need more time to yourself and dh of an evening - as far as I can see you are getting no "couple" time and that is part of the reason why you are feeling the way you are. Divide up the chores more evenly, get dh to do teeth and toileting, you to do stories etc.

Once you have the kids in bed about 3 hours earlier, having divided the bedtime chores between you, and having stopped the lying down with them to get them to sleep, you will be a lot less stressed, and will have more energy to see you through the day. You need to balance your life with some more "me" time and "couple" time.

And don't beat yourself up too much about it! You are pg (tiring and makes you emotional), could do with more support, and have two small children to look after.

Wow what a post!! A couple of things stand out to me - first thing is you need to establish a routine for ds and dd and MUCH much earlier than 9pm. I would say a more reasonable time for them is between 7 and 8pm at the latest to be in bed ready to sleep.

Secindly, your dh needs to help out more but I think you need to be clear with him what you want him to do. Start your wind down/bedtime routine from 6.15 after both kids have had dinner. About 6.30 get them bathed, have a play, get them dressed in their pj's, have a story with their milk. Then up to bed to clean their teeth/last wee etc and into bed, lights off at7.30 (or nightlight on, whichever you prefer).

You need to stick to this without fail and within a week your kids will get the idea. You will go into them a dozen times before they realise you mean business and that mummy and daddy's bed is for you and they have their own.

Then you have the evening free to have adult time with dh or time to yourself. You will have a far less stressful evening and prabably even look forward to sepnding some "grown-up" time with him. I know I could not be doing with my babies running around at 9pm. Not good for you and neither for them. You will all benefit from introducing and sticking to a firm routine.

Snap Miaou!

arabella? How are you feeling today?

It really sounds like you need some time. I agree that their bedtime seems really late (especially for 1 20 month old). Around about 7pm- 8pm is a much better time (My Ds goes to bed at 6.30pm but I appreciate most people find that too early). If they are tired they will be much more difficult to deal with.

You need to agree this with your dh and work as a team. Explain how you feel to him - Can you get a babysitter and go out with him and have some time just him and you to talk? Work out between you what you want and implement a strategy about how to deal with it - then stick to it.

Also co-sleeping is fine but not if you are beginning to resent it. Maybe it's time to review that. Start with one thing, the bedtime or the place and when they are used to that move on to the next.

I REALLY believe that children should not take up all our lives. It is actually bad for them to see they have so much power over us. They need to feel included but that we are the ones who are in charge - it makes them feel safe.

If you give yourself some space from them you won't always be feeling like you want to get away from them. Please take care of your relationship with dh- Your children will be MUCH more unhappy without that than about being put to bed earlier or sleeping in their own room.

It really sounds like you need some time. I agree that their bedtime seems really late (especially for 1 20 month old). Around about 7pm- 8pm is a much better time (My Ds goes to bed at 6.30pm but I appreciate most people find that too early). If they are tired they will be much more difficult to deal with.

You need to agree this with your dh and work as a team. Explain how you feel to him - Can you get a babysitter and go out with him and have some time just him and you to talk? Work out between you what you want and implement a strategy about how to deal with it - then stick to it.

Also co-sleeping is fine but not if you are beginning to resent it. Maybe it's time to review that. Start with one thing, the bedtime or the place and when they are used to that move on to the next.

I REALLY believe that children should not take up all our lives. It is actually bad for them to see they have so much power over us. They need to feel included but that we are the ones who are in charge - it makes them feel safe.

If you give yourself some space from them you won't always be feeling like you want to get away from them. Please take care of your relationship with dh- Your children will be MUCH more unhappy without that than about being put to bed earlier or sleeping in their own room.

Agree with all that's been said by others.

You obviously realise this is not the way to continue.

One of your biggest problems I feel is going to be trying to convince your dh that there is an issue - have you tried talking to him about it?
I just think that unless you work together, the kids are going to see him in a good light and you always in a bad light (kids are fickle like that). Your DH must be supportive.

i have problems with control too - i like things done a certain way but with children its impossible.

i have started repeating over and over to myself "its not important its not important its not important" with things like toilet first, teeth after, just because it means they will have to wash hands twice. so what if they have to wash hands twice? ITS NOT IMPORTANT! (i still get annoyed when these things happen, but i have to try and contain it) i know others will laugh

things that annoy me too are when you shout "teas ready" no-one seems to listen - i hate it when i feel ignored - does this sound the same to you? it only seems like a second before im shouting and then its an argument - i have no patience and maybe youre the same. just count to 10.

i am trying not to do any shouting unless its really important - the lying on the stair thing - just step over him - ignore ignore ignore. i only shout if dd's here are fighting, or they run to the side of the road or something.

and you need to ask your dh for help. he likes to be good cop and you are bad cop. thats not fair.

co-sleeping is also nice but with another baby on the way your life will be hell with night feeds etc

i wish you lots of luck with the transfer to own rooms xxx

Arabella2, I think you have identified your trouble spots yourself. Everyone is right, your kids need more sleep. I feel for children this young anywhere between 6 and 7pm to be ASLEEP is fine. For their physical and mental development this much sleep is necessary, let alone giving you happier less grumpy children!

I also passionately believe that by sleeping with them in this communal arrangement, you are not doing them any favours. This is because children need to learn from us about relationships, in order to be able to form adult relationships themselves later on. They need to see that mum and dad want time together, to talk about adult things and do adult things! They need to see that you love eachother so much that you want time together as a couple. This makes them feel safe and secure, and funnily enough I believe it is healthy that children know that you have a life outside them - I think otherwise kids can feel a sense of responsibility for your happiness.

They need to learn to fall asleep on their own! In their own room! If you don't teach them to do this you are depriving them of a vital life skill.

One major thing that I hope doesn't offend you too much, but I must say - your husband has to grow up. BOTH of you should do bedtime. Or if he's been out at work all day, HE should do their bedtime alone as a way of spending time with them. At the very least you need a routine in which both of you take a full part. Again, this gives the kids security and takes away any confusion they might feel.

You are having a third baby - I feel you and your husband really must must get a 'child centred' routine going in order for all of your lives to have a chance of being happy.

Just remember, children NEED lots of sleep, they NEED a routine, and they NEED to feel the safety of knowing their parents are in charge. As they grow older the NEED independence from their parents. They don't need to sleep with you - they might LIKE it but they don't NEED it. So feel strong when it comes to their own beds!

I do hope you manage to get things sorted, but you can't do it on your own, you need your husband to become involved. He sounds like another child at the moment. I seriously would try to have some evenings out if you can get a babysitter, where you can start to discuss how things need to change. Being a man, I think you'll have to couch it with plenty of praise, tell him what he does well, what the kids love about him, etc, but be strong and get a plan for how things must change.

ALL the dads I know, if physically present in the home in the evening, take EQUAL part in cooking dinner, bathing, putting kids to bed. This is not unusual nowadays!!!!!!! Good luck and I really really hope you can get there.

Thanks for taking the time to read my epic. I agree that both kids need to go to bed earlier. In some ways ds (4 years old) really still needs a little mid-day sleep as he functions much better and sleeps better at night like this. The other day (after the post) he was totally knackered (having had no mid-day sleep as this only happens if by chance we are in the car) and asleep at 8.00pm only to wake up be totally wide away for ages at 2.00am. It's also true that dh and I have different ideas about co-sleeping at the moment, mainly because I want more closeness with him and he is not bothered or so it seems . Anyway there is a room ready for them and we'll probably start them off in it after the Christmas hols (going away to a flat where they will have to sleep in the same double bed so no point trying training before that) and see how it goes though I'm not holding my breath. I don't mind doing all of the bedtime routine if I can get it done quickly - often dh slows the whole thing down if he does get involved so feel quite chilled about that part of it (today anyway). Dh and I had a tough week this week with each other but seem to be back on more of an even keel - he can be unbelievably critical when stressed and that really makes me miserable. Thanks for all your ideas and your post re. control nailpolish.

Agree with nailpolish if your Ds lies on the stairs then step over him and ignore him.
I really hope you get this sorted out with their sleeping,

Your dh needs to stop being so selfish and start supporting you. He's not actually doing the children any favours by being 'good cop' and leaving all the nasty stuff to you. Little children need some sort of routine (doesn't have to be out of a book, just predictable for them ie at 6.30ish each night it's bath, then milk, then teeth). And they need their sleep. A daddy who actively gets in the way of their bedtime routine is actually doing them harm. He should put the kids and their needs first during bedtime routine - which will have the benefit of giving him some time off after they've gone to bed too.

A daddy who only turns up for the fun bits isn't really being a daddy, he's trying to be a friend. And your little boy doesn't need a 30-something (or however old your dh is) friend, he needs a daddy who can firmly but nicely enforce the rules. Your dh is also harming the children by manipulating their relationship with you, making you into the baddy. If he cares about them, he should want them to feel happy with mummy too.

If he carries on like this, your children will, one day, work out that their father can't be bothered to care for them properly.

I'm not saying this is all your dh's fault, honest, I'm sure he didn't actively and knowingly create the situation, just that the state you are all in is damaging and he needs to support you in changing it.

If you can get him to understand that the way things are going on is actually bad for the kids, maybe he'll be more constructive in helping it to change.

HTH