Another can of worms!!

[Toasty]

Pre ds I used to be a nice person now I appear to have turned into this constantly moaning often shouting sometimes quite horrible person. What seems like every day at the moment I tell myself tomorrow I will be a better mother I wont scream and shout I will talk quietly and calmly to my ds who is after all just coming up to 4. But it works for a few days but then the rage/anger whatever you want to call it comes back and I hate myself - we are supposedly trying for number and I find myself thinking things like I cant even be a good mother to one child what the hell will I be like with two - I know I'm not the only person who feels like this but would love to hear from other mums who feel like this and if anybody has got any suggestions as to how to develop a calmer approach to life I would be very very grateful

Hi Toasty.
Poor you- you sound like you're going through a rough patch. I think we've all been there and probably will be again.
Have you thought about why you're feeling angry at the moment? And what you need to feel calmer? Have you got enough support, enough time for yourself? Do you get angry with your son because of his behaviour or because you're feeling stressed for other reasons?
Think around the extent of the problem too. Has this been going on long? How seriously is it affecting your relationship with your son? Do you need some counselling or advice on managing your son's behaviour? Or maybe this a case of you being too hard on yourself?- we all say things we regret as parents and it is apparently essential for kids' healthy development that we make mistakes sometimes! Only you know the answers. One thing that might be useful is a parenting course. I really want to attend one- Steve Biddulph reckons that Britain has some of the best courses around and that all parents can benefit from going.
Anyway, good luck Toasty. I hope some of this helps.

Hi Toasty,

I know how you feel, I can be quite a hot-tempered, impatient person (depending on how tired I am- but then I'm also a Sagittarian and it is supposedly in our blood!) so here are some of my tips.

1. STOP berating yourself at once!!!!! The more you berate yourself, the more anger you feel so stop doing it! You are a good mother and are doing the best you can. Keep telling yourself you are a good mother and try to see all the positive things.

2)Take some time for yourself and curl up with a good book or go shopping for something for yourself or whatever you really fancy doing. I really used to resent never having any time for myself until I realised that I had to make the time for myself.

3)Go inside a church. I know this probably sounds daft, especially as I am not a regular church-goer but I find that there is a great sense of peace to be gained from going inside an old church and it wears off on you too. My kids quite enjoy it now, I tell them we are going to go and say "hello" to God. They also enjoy lighting candles (all budding pyromaniacs!)

4. Keep telling yourself you are a good mother and a wonderful person. The sooner you start feeling better about yourself, the sooner things around you will change. I find books by Louise Hay to be very useful. (Positive affirmations- they have worked wonders for me!)

5. I used to think I couldn't cope with one, now I have 4. You can cope. Stop being too critical about yourself!!! The perfect mum has yet to be created.

I hope you feel better soon.

M.

hi toasty i feel like you sometimes and was at my wits end i would to get so depressed have you tought of evening primrose oil it is said to be very good for pms i know it sounds like it's not what you have but it might help i found it very good are you about the same age as me in your mid thirtys i know it's very hard have you a good friend if you are feeling like the bitch from hell i found it helps to talk to somebody that understands the demands of having kids hope this helps

Thanks both of you for responding so quickly - its great to feel that others understand what you are going through - last night was an incident where yet again my son had bitten someone at nursery he now has a diary at nursery where good/not so good behaviour is recorded as his behaviour was becoming unacceptable to them and news to me so we decided the diary would cut out the lack of communication. His behavour did appear to be getting better but this week every single day there has been incidents of kicking/slapping round the fact/biting etc etc which up until last night I had tried very hard to deal with in a calm way as I believe that my aggression does not help his but last night I lost it and yelled sent him into time out and then as he continued to wind me up for want of another expression I sent him to bed. There are obvious times when my anger is worsened by tiredness, feeling unhappy about lack of time etc etc but I suppose because I am getting so upset about his behaviour I feel that I should try harder not to make it worse by yelling at him and making him even more angry but then I tell myself I cant never yell at him just in case it makes him worse at nursery. I really dont think he has a major problem most of the time and think its just that side of his development ie in dealing with his anger is slower than maybe other kids his age I know they are develop at a different rate but this morning I'm starting to think am I burying my head in the sand is there somethign like ADHD or whatever other conditions or its because my dp and myself are not lovely calm parents?

Toasty - I could have written your first post myself. I have become this horrible woman with my daughter and the volume of my own voice surprises even me. She has now started to imitate me and we a have a very snarling relationship some of the time - especially when we are both tired.

I don't know whether, for you, it is pms but I did go to the doctor about my rages, they were/are that bad. BUT I have recently started taking Starflower Oil and they are having a very calming effect on my moods. I feel sedated. Whether it is a placebo effect or not, I'm not sure, but who cares if they are working. It might be worth a go. I remember a friend telling me she was glad kids don't have much memory of what happens to them before about 4, she was so bad-tempered. You're NOT alone.

Toasty, I really sympathise with you. My oldest son went through a similar phase. Reading your second posting it sounds like you know all about the benefits of coping calmly with his tantrums - it's just that reality doesn't always match ideals.

Please put lots of IMOs in front of anything else I now say, because I am only drawing on my own personal experience with my son.

Firstly I really wouldn't feel at all bad about giving him 'time out' or even, on the odd occasion, sending him to bed. Temporarily depriving him of attention when he's badly behaved is not the end of the world and it seems many childcare experts say it's a valid form of control. And it helps stop you losing control too.

Also, remind yourself that the worst is behind you. Your son is nearly four. So nappies, sleepless nights and pushchairs etc are fast on the way out. He talks and walks ok. He can make his needs known to you. He's beginning to know the rudiments of safety and appropriate behaviour, so knows that pavements not roads are for walking on etc. You no longer have to be three steps behind him in the playgroud or try to anticipate his every move.

Ok you have tantrums but if my son is anything to go on 4 is when I began to see light at the end of the tunnel. I think 4 is a lovely age - the beginnings of independence, so you begin to get some of your life back and yet, pre-school, they are still so innocent and unintentionally funny and you are still so important to them.

Despite this, I went through a bad patch with my son when he was about five. I was under a lot of strain: work, family, financial, decorating, selling house, moving, and getting pregnant and giving birth to my second. I had so little time for anyone or anything, and when I wasn't working or decorating, felt constantly tired. I simply didn't have much left of anything to give my son, although at the time I found it hard to admit this, as I arranged day trips and fun things to do. We did enjoy them, of course, and it wasn't all doom and gloom, but I was really only firing on one cylinder. So, when he misbehaved in any way, this was often the last straw and I would have great screaming matches with him.

What made it worse was that ds had a much calmer relationship with my husband, and was far better behaved with him. It was so noticeable that quite a few people commented on it to me. That and the fact that my son could be an absolute charmer around adults when I wasn't around meant it was easy for me to feel I was really not motherhood material!

Anyway the bad patch passed and the stress and strain etc got less. I suppose without realising it I seemed a slightly different mummy to my son. I certainly had more time to be with him. I also made a conscious decision to see him as a good boy who sometimes did bad things, as opposed to a bad boy who had to be persuaded to do good things. To do this I had to let some of his minor bad behaviour go unpunished for a while, so we could concentrate on the good bits, and followed the positive praise advice you see in books. I didn't stop losing it and shouting at him entirely, but I tried to create more nice times together to counterbalance it. No one's perfect are they? but at least you can then look back on a day with your son and remember some good times.

Anyway going back to tantrums at four years old. Have you tried telling your son you're going to phone daddy or his grandparents - or even pretend you're having a short conversation with them. I used to tell my son - daddy has just said 'go to your room'. When we were out I used to say a policeman will come and tell me off if I let you do that. Cheating I know, but it helped change a tantrum from a mum versus son thing into a good versus bad thing.

Also, if there are certain situations that are likely to produce bad behaviour or screaming matches try to eliminate them and follow your own instincts: I wish we had not given away our stroller so soon. Even when he was four, my son still wanted to be carried if he was tired. If only I had had a stroller to hand, it would have saved so many arguments when we were out. I took my cue in this from other mothers, not my son, and he knew it, and that made him even crosser.

Also I began to have a bedtime chat with him. There was no pressure on him to do anything because he was fed, washed and in bed. I didn't have to be the bossy mummy he'd had all evening. I didn't have to come across like a mummy at all, just someone really interested in him and his day. For me this has been a really good thing. I helped me to like him, as well as to love him to bits. Can I be outspoken and say that I don't think 'like' automatically follows love when you are a mother. You can't 'like' until you have a personality there to get to know and to make friends with. Babies don't have much of this. Toddlers increasingly do - and I suppose for me at least, this revelatin came as a shock. I just thought love alone would carry us through and then felt I'd failed because it didn't.

I am rambling now and lots of this may be off the subject, Toasty, but I send you my best wishes.

Toasty, Tinker et al
I too have been going through the anger/guilt/depression cycle recently - I want to do something about it before ds gets the idea that this sort of behaviour is ok/normal. So you're far from being the only one Toasty! I'm glad it's not just me!

Tinker - I would love to know how the GP responded and what suggestions s/he made if any other than Starflower (which I will try).

Toasty - I definitely find I feel worse the more tired I am...

Some obvious suggestions (you may well have already considered them)

1. Get a cleaner - don't know what your financial situation is but sometimes I feel I can't afford not to...
2. Get partner/relatives to help out more to give you a rest either by doing some of the chores or taking little darling off your hands for a while
3. Go to bed early - sounds so obvious I know - but my husband really has to nag me to go to bed at a reasonable hour and I really feel better when I do
4. Relaxation techniques - found the ones I practised prior to the birth fairly useless for labour, but have found them a help since in staying calm sometimes (not a sure fire winner in my case!)
5. When all else fails I keep repeating to my ds how much I love him and how proud of him I am - not necessarily aloud. This sometimes acts like a calming mantra

I agree with Hedgehog there's no point berating oneself - and there's no such thing as a perfect mother!

Good luck

Tigermoth, you brought a tear to my eye...and to think you really thought you were not cut out to be a mother. Your advice is always so practical and helpful! You are so right about motherhood and our expectations of our relationships with our children. I think what you say also applies to our adult relationships with our own parents and having a very difficult relationship with my parents I often find myself trying to believe that love is enough when it is clearly not... anyway, I am rambling...

P.S I agree with everyone who says there is no such thing as a perfect mother. Motherhood is a steep learning curve Toasty and the best thing is that you acknowledge your weaknesses. Take some time out if you can and don't be so hard on yourself!

Yeah, I know how it feels. Here's what I do:

Instead of a "time out" for my son, I put myself in a different room and lock the door (not really, just he's not allowed in with me) for a few minutes until my sanity starts to come creeping back. That works better for me for some reason. The effort involved in a time out for him is too much at that point usually. Plus, he doesn't mind going to his room!

Also, right when he starts getting fussy and it's obvious that the situation could escalate, I take 10 minutes to sit down and play with him (whatever he wants to do within reason). Getting a dose of concentrated attention usually seems to sidetrack whatever is brewing. After 10 minutes I go and get myself a Coke or small treat of some kind.. especially when I really didn't feel like playing crash cars for the 5 millionth time. He usually doesn't mind me leaving him to play on his own for a bit if I've played with him beforehand.

Good luck and, repeating everyone else, don't beat yourself up.

Just to add I agree with everyone else here about the importance of making your life easier as well - time away from children, an early night or two etc.

I liked the 10 minutes-of-concentrated-attention-to-divert-a-bad-situation tactic very much.

And thanks a lot for the compliment Winnie!

I have a friend, who used to whisper to her son whilst he was asleep "you are a good boy" and lots of positive thoughts!

I have had hard times with my now 6.5 year old son. On Tuesday he was nearly killed when he ran in the road to say goodbye to some friends and a car was coming. Thankfully he was lucky.

He used to bite, push the others over, etc. Quite often his behaviour deteriorated if he was tired. I don't let him have many e-numbers in his food and certainly not Aspartame (an artificial sweetener which affects his behaviour). It is in diet drinks and low sugar products.

I make sure that when we've had a good day/hour/minute that he knows. I tell him that was great, you behaved really nicely, Mummy was really happy and did you notice I didn't shout or get upset. Blah, Blah, Blah!

Ask your Health Visitor about Positive Parenting courses. Very helpful, just common sense but some sound advice, not contraversial (spelling?). R.

Toasty - I have just had to print off everones comments on this subject to read them as everyone has written so much. Do you feel a bit better for seeing that you are not alone? Without wishing to sound as though I'm jumping on the bandwagon, I have been there too and have more or less come out the other side. My situation was very similar to yours. When my son started nursery from day one I was called in for hitting and from then on more or less everyday I was called in for either that, kicking, biting, scratching etc. It got to the stage was I felt sick going to get him as I knew what was coming. To make matters worse, there was a strict parents' helping rota so all the other mothers saw what he was doing and as a result no one talked to me and he was never invited to parties. I felt that the teachers were absolutely no help or support to him or me because they saw him as a problem and I don't think liked him very much. Their way of dealing with him was to remove him away from the others and I think this perhaps made him feel that he was different to the other children and made him even worse. One day I got called in for something which I considered very minor (silly name calling I think which the nursery could have easily dealt with) and I decided that I had had enough and removed him from that nursery. I put him into a different nursery and although not as highly regarded as the first suited him better and he has since made steady progress (although still has good days and bad days like most kids). My point is that your child is unlikely to be a violent psychopath and something must be causing it. I think in my son's case it was a reaction to being away from me for the first time and because it was not the usual way of showing separation anxiety (ie. crying) the nursery saw him as a problem and dealt with him accordingly. I also felt that he wasn't given any chances to redeem himself and got the blame whether it was him or not if he was in the vicinity. Also, i felt that the nursery's longwinded explanations of the wrongness of his actions were too much for him to concentrate on at his age and a shorter, sharper "No, don't do that!" (as he got at home and the subsequent nursery) were more appropriate and worked alot better. With hinesight I can see that he was emotionally immature for his age and dealt with things he didn't like in a babyish way ie hitting, biting etc. The nursery couldn't cope with him and were happy to label him hyperactive, of course now I know that he is not and that it's a phase many children go through. However, at the time I felt like a total failure as a mother, I couldn't work out what I had done wrong to make my child behave in such a violent way. I used to get very angry with him and even scared by my own temper sometimes. Part of this anger was caused by total frustration. I knew that he could be a sweet, loving child but couldn't understand why he wasn't at nursery. I felt like I was letting him down and he was letting me down. Now I realise that it was nothing that I did wrong but something that he had to 'grow out' of himself. He can still be silly at times but does not lash out like he used to. Please try and remember at your lowest times that it is not you or anything that you have done. I found it very helpful to talk to someone in the same situation as they understand how frustrated and alone you feel. When he is really driving you mad, put him in his room, get some ditance between you and let things calm down. As hard as it can be to like them when they are carrying on in such a horrible way, try to be there for your son, he only has one mother and your are his advocate and his defender against the rest of the world who, unfortunately, can seem like it's against you. Hang in there, toasty, and weather the storm, believe me you will come out the other side and be a wiser person fo it!

I too feel as though all I do is scream like a wild woman some days. I have found that one of the things that helps me to get through it is to make my peace with my daughter when she is asleep. This sounds a bit mad, but when i go to bed I have always 'tucked her in' and I sit on the floor next to her bed and talk to her about how the day went and I apologise if I have shouted too much.

Toasty, I can really sympathise with you, having just (well a couple of hours ago) shouted at my daughter and become very angry with her for rolling around on the landing floor wailing for my partner (away on a stag do) while I was desperately trying to settle the baby for the night.

There's no such thing as a perfect mum - I'm sure you are an escellent Mum - keep on persevering it will get better.

I'm with all of you, Yesterday my voice box felt dry and sore from the sheer volume of my yelling, i'm ashamed to say. It's pathetic really because the one thing i'm trying to teach my five year old to stop doing is...to stop yelling!! I know i'm supposed to be teaching by example, but why do they seem to copy all of our 'bad' habits so easily and very little of the 'good' habits?

I sometimes feel I am such a hopeless mother. So different from how I hoped I'd be. I am about to have no.3, due yesterday and beating up my insides as I type, and I feel really anxious. My patience is practically non-existent. I think everyone's advice here is really good. I went off on my own yesterday something I so rarely do. I felt like a naughty runaway as I walked to the bus-stop. I didn't want to come home and completely overdid it but it did me so much good. I was pleased to see my children when I got home!

Forgive yourself, as my dh says to me. Being a parent is such a hard job. Treat each day as a new day and don't look at so and so and think they are so fantastic and you are not. A good friend of mine, who I thought so patient, admitted to jumping up and down on her bed shouting "shut up, shut up" to her dd.

I have wept over a sleeping child many times asking forgiveness and promising better times! Why do they look so adorable when they're asleep?!

Remember too you are not alone....discovering Mumsnet was a real lifesaver for me when I was really unhappy after no. 2 was born. Unfortunately these days I don't seem to have much time to contribute....please think of me as I struggle to cope with 3!!

Given the difficulties so many of us clearly face in being confident that we are doing a good job as parents (and the references in the past to children saying they "hate" their parents and so on), I'm surprised that people posting aren't seemingly more tolerant/ forgiving of their own mothers for mistakes they may have made as parents...

Hallo Gracie,

I found your comment interesting and you do have point. I have been working very hard on forgiving my parents and I think I have made a lot of progress on that score, however their total refusal (inability? fear?) to admit to what actually happened does not make it very easy. I try very hard to be a good mother and when I go over the top, I ask apologise to my children, something my own parents would never have done. Nor did my mother ever suffer from the same level of fatigue as she never had to work and she never lifted a finger to clean or tidy the house either, nor did she ever attempt to seek help for her problems.

I'm not going to start justifying myself here as I have been working on the problem and have been trying to understand why.

As I said before, the perfect mother still has to be created but there is a difference between normal "mistakes" and abuse.

Bossykate - just to get back to your questions. The GP (male and much younger than me!) didn't actually recommend anything but just seemed to be very concerned that I wasn't actually depressed rather than bad-tempered. He didn't ask outright, just fished. Obviously, GP's are now trained to be more aware of depression and that most people who are contrive another reason to see their GP.

It's ironic really because I never actually went to the doctor's when, in hindsight, I'm sure I was depressed about 3 years ago. However, I had already decided I would go back on the pill to try to stabilise my moods and to some extent, it's working. I pretty much take them without a break now because I can't be bothered with periods.

But the Starflower oil is definitely to be recomended. I had an enforced experiment a few days ago when I was without my supply and within a day or so I had returned to my impatient, snappy self!

I like your recommendations about having a cleaner - financially this has been beyond me but now my daughter is at school, it may be worth considering. I'm a domestic slut anyway but the chaos of a child doesn't help.

Thanks to you all for you messages of support I have been away from my PC for over a week and reading them on my return is great.

Thanks, Tinker. I have been taking Starflower oil for a few days now and trying to follow my own advice about going to bed early! Seems to be having a positive effect so far...