What does dd need to hear us say to these unpleasant comments? WWYD?

[Unrulysun]

My MIL is quite an odd and evil person. She sometimes says things to our dd which are designed to be divisive eg 'Your mummy's wicked isn't she?', 'Your daddy was so rough with you then, granny would be rough with you' (we are neither rough nor wicked btw :) )

She also sometimes says things which are just plain old evil: 'We'll all hate you when you're 15' and her classic 'When mummy has a new baby she'll forget all about you'.

DD is 15 mo so we've mostly been ignoring on the basis that it's really not good for dd to hear a great big huge row which is what happens when MIL feels threatened (and on the basis that actually the comments are directed at us and fundamentally we don't give a shit) but obviously she'll start to fully understand soon. So the question is what does dd need to hear us respond with? Is it enough to say 'I'm not wicked MIL'? Or 'We'll never hate you darling'? or does she need to hear us be firm about not saying things like that?

nickschick that's a different response to the others. I suppose I have been thinking that we can make it OK but I don't want to expose her to nastiness at all really.

Oops dd awake, will check in later, ver helpful and thought-provoking so far people - thanks. :)

Nickschick - and you allowed her to do this why?

Unrulysun - yes, you need to be firm and get it sorted in the next couple of months. Follow through on any threats you make - she will come around quickly when she realises that you mean it when you say she will not see DD if she speaks like that... and at some stage later on if she regresses, I do think the line 'Granny is being naughty and she needs some time out to practise being nice' is perfect

Sorry - just saw that people have asked about dh, he's 100% behind what's best for dd and he finds them more difficult than I do to be honest. I do feel a bit sorry for her, she's married to a very cold very unpleasant man and I think that's partly why she acts out :(

I do believe that sometimes our children watching us be honest and dealing with the consequences of that honesty, is the best thing.

Tell her that its unacceptable to say things like that and you wont be having it. If she chooses not to see you all again, then that is a decision she has made. You then made the decision to stand up for yourselves and your daughter and she has made a decision that she wont tolerate you standing up for yourselves.

It sends a very clear message to your daughter that you wont let people bully/treat you badly.

Please do be aware that she may, when your DD is older take her to one side and start sharing "secrets" with her. My granny did this, your MIL may not, but it would be worth asking your DH what sort of stuff she used to do when he was a child. It is really damaging for a child to hear their parents criticised, my gran used to tell me my mum was a bad mother, and children don't have the emotional maturity to deal with this. I was horribly confused, I was meant to love my parents and my gran, yet gran was saying my parents were bad? I couldn't reconcile this at all and it really upset me. I was a very quiet child and never openly questioned anything and this went on for years.

It is a form of bullying and control and very unpleasant. I also suspect if you do stand up to her she will go into victim mode and "it's just a joke" and "you have no sense of humour" or "it's not that bad" when actually she means she should be allowed to say anything and you shouldn't complain or challenge her, which is classic emotional abuse.

If a child in DD's school said things like this I'd be in there like a shot talking to the teacher about bullying, so this should not be tolerated in families either.

It's difficult. I've known relatives who said things like this, and if challenged would have said they were "just teasing". If that's the way your MIL thinks, maybe the best response would be to respond teasingly as well, making a joke out of it (if possible).
My own grandmother was a bit like this: and she did indeed say things intended to create divisions, and get people on her side. But I don't think it harmed my brother and myself: as we grew up learnt that she was like that, and just accepted it. My mother was the person most hurt, because more often than not she was the real target of these comments. This was her own mother, not her MIL, btw.
My grandfather on the other hand was the kindest person I have ever known. My parents couldn't have cut off contact with my grandmother without cutting off from my grandfather as well, and that would have been unthinkable.
And my gran did have some redeeming qualities: she could be very generous, for instance.

Maiavan, I think that's a good way of putting it, we stand up to it and she then has a choice to make.

Miggsie I think that's exactly what she would do. She constantly asks for time alone with dd (which she can have when hell freezes over or when dd is 18 :) ) in my view people who want to spend time alone with your children for no particular reason are exactly the people you don't want doing that.

LWR unfortunately FIL is completely useless and they are both as tight as a gnat's arse so no reasons to be cheerful there. But she is capable of being nice and loving, it's just well hid...

I wasnt saying it was right or acceptable but I do think grandparents are v important - its your 'shot' if you can not be involved with her and thats the way you go -then I wouldnt be here saying 'oh you must involve her' but from the tone of the op I thought perhaps it was a situation you had to tolerate perhaps because shes your dhs mum?.

I certainly didnt mean to cause offence and give the impression that bullying was acceptable - most definitely it is not nor was I suggesting that the child is only adored and anything less is hurtful to the OP.

My own grandmother behaves this way I think because shes quite an unpleasant person she hasnt had an easy life and I suppose shes just gotten used to being 'nasty' I dont 'allow' her to be like this certainly over the years dh and all 3 dc have made decisions not to be involved with her (it is a long distance thing anyway)-I am kind of resigned to the fact this is how she is,this is what she says and I dont get involved with her day-day bitching I just stay cheerful and positive and when she says the ds 'nick names' i remind her of their names etc etc -shes offensive to me too tells me I have no brains and ds gets his brain from my uncle etc etc I just think ah well shes old and tolerance is a blessing Ill be old one day too.

op i completely understand where you are coming from. My mum often makes these sort of snide remarks. But they are only jokes. Obviously.

Most of the time she is lovely but clearly has some issues (her mum deserted her at 12 and she was left with her dad raising her younger brothers. Imo she is sort of emotionaly arrested at that age, thus the bitchy school girl bullshit).

My temper is clearly not as good as yours, cause i have snapped back on occasion. This is really difficult though as some of the comments are quite subtle and it can take me a while to work out why her words are so offensive. And by then the moment has passed iyswim. But on the odd occasion something must have gone in as she is getting better. Maybe she's finally growing up.

Fwiw i personaly had to work on eradicating bits of her habbits that i had inherited. So it can be done (not that i'm saying i'm perfect)! But it takes a degree of self awareness that seems to be more common in our self help generation. Several of my friends mums are very similar...completely lacking in any perspective on their self. I do wonder if it's a generational thing (in part).

I think key for us were a couple of incidents when ds was a baby when she did the putting words in the baby's mouth thing and i snapped. He's 18m now and it doesn't happen much/at all(?) now. If it did i would say something very matter of fact back. No doubt this would be me "always having a go" at her Yes mum, apart from the millions of times i bite my tongue. I try not to snap now,esp in front of ds.

In our case though the individual comments are nasty, they were relivitly infrequent and in the context of an otherwise loving situation (needy even, that's partly the problem). It hasn't got to a point where i would consider stopping contact. Though this would be the "big gun" so to speak. Anyway not much practical help, but you have my sympathy.

I think those different responses are quite thought provoking because they do offer a way through. Partly as well we lie by omission to her - she's very jealous of the great relationship dd has with her other gps who are wonderful and we tend to not mention that they've been up but dd will start to drop us in it soon!

I can see where nickschick is coming from - it is true that it's useful to learn how to deal with unpleasantness/bullies. But DD is too young at the moment - toddlers believe wholeheartedly that the world revolves around them and part of that is assuming that they are responsible for anything bad that happens.