What is different to our grandparents

[Denialistheway]

I think this is the question we need to be asking ourselves. No excuses, no justifications, no denial.

Now there have always been riots the world over since recorded history BUT what have we (and yes it is this generation) done differently that has damaged society to this point. There are problems to numerous to count and I think (hope) everyone is aware of them.

Why have so many youths got this sense of entitlement. With so little respect for people, authority, property, parents, elders, etc. Why have clothes, phones and things become top priority along with hanging out and not helping out?

And the biggest question is why are we not looking at what we have done to "break" society and constantly denying what is wrong?

Have TV/media played a part? Is it such freely available communication. Or is it human rights gone mad? At some point with human rights, anothers rights are infringed upon in order to give another their rights. Have we gone pc to the point of no return?

If we go back to basics, were the "elders" not always to be respected as they were the ones who had actually lived and experienced what the younger generation only heard about? When we disregard the elders are we not just raising kids on books, hearsay and what we think is right and not on actual experience that the "elders" have actually lived?

We cannot blame underprivileged, poverty, etc. We can look all over the world for people who are truly underprivileged and in true poverty and this has also happened since time began. We only need look at the great depression, many parts of Africa/India to see hardship. What I am talking about is western society and where it is at.

I dont know the answers but would be interested to hear others views. Name change if you need to but I would love to hear what you honestly think the problem is.

I don't think there is anything wrong with 'young people today'. They are not an homogenous group and they do not deserved to be stereotyped in this way. That's both stupid and unhelpful, to be frank.

Similarly, there were plenty of young people in each of the last several generations (and probably before) who were viewed as a huge social problem. I suggest that you educate yourself about this rather than going on about some golden-tinged perfect generation of grandparents against which you find contemporary youth lacking. Our parents and grandparents and great grandparent grew up in societies where some people behaved dreadfully. Some people stole or killed, some people rioted and looted, some people had children out of wedlock and brought them up, sometimes with several different fathers, some people left their children to fend for themselves from a very young age while they went out drinking and whoring... And the middle classes were very anxious about this kind of thing and devised all sorts of policy interventions to 'solve' the problem.

Similarly, in the non-western world, there are all sorts of social problems and 'problem groups'. It's not all a utopia of poor but good people, who can be contrasted with the immoral poor who have been corrupted by an over-generous welfare state and consumer culture (two of our contemporary villains).

It's absolutely vital to consider the social problems that existed in our grandparents generation, particularly if we are going to hold them up as some sort of ideal.

A lot of these kids fell they have no future, and nothing to lose. They are not scared of jail. In fact, for some, it could be a vast improvement to what they have now, and possibly the only opportunity of structure and education.

Our forefathers were brought up in a stricter society, where they were encouraged to better themselves. There was a stronger work ethic and a culture where being unemployed was shameful (not saying that is a good thing). They were proud to have an education, whereas nowadays it is nerdy or geeky to enjoy school.

The education they had was challenging, whereas children are more spoon fed now than they have ever been in the past.

There was also a British sense of pride, whereas now all the Brits seem to do is moan about how the country's gone to pot. There is no sense of pride, and this is evident in the press, in people's attitudes. It shocks me every time I come home. A sense of lack of respect for themselves, their country, their colleagues, friends. t's all so cynical.

And it has changed in my lifetime, I feel, and I am only 30ish

The narrative of moral decay you're working with here, OP, has a long and distinguished history. For hundreds of years, societies have been getting angst about how everything is going to the bad and young people don't have the respect/work-ethic/morals that they used to.

but what about all the bad things that have been put right

women being able to have careers and have children
women (and men) getting support and help in dv situations and convictions mane (not enough)
sexual and physical abuse not being accepted as jsut one of those things that happens and then not talked about
women being able to divorce jsut because they want to move on and be able to financially support herself
a man not being able to rape his wife
laws to stop discrimination
the poor not starving
the nhs
university education not just for the rich
being workign class not condemning you to a life where you have little choice and you do what you have to do to get by

these are jsut a few examples

I think in general people used to be a lot more involved in parenting their children.

You see, I'm not so sure about this. Thinking of my Grandma, she was bringing up two boys during the 30s and 40s. There was not much money - my Grandad was in and out of work during the 30s - and Grandma had to lie to get a council house (telling them that Grandad was working when he wasn't.) There was no prospect of owning your own house and education wasn't particularly valued - my Dad passed his 11+ and went to Grammar school - but was still expected to leave school asap to get a job.

Grandma was very uninvolved in her children's lives. She spent her days doing housework (without any of the labour-saving devices we have today) while my Dad and Uncle roamed wherever (including railway lines and building sites.) I don't think she was an untypical example of a working class mother of her generation.

My Dad and Uncle turned out fine. Why? What was different? I think that the attitude was very different. People respected authority and cared deeply about what society thought about them. If my Dad had misbehaved at school, he would have been punished again at home. You earned the respect of your neighbours by how clean your front step was, not because of the gadgets you owned.

Times have moved on. I think the biggest shift is one of attitude and expectation.

But FreudianSlipper, considering such things would simply muddy this nice, clean narrative of 'in the past' = good, 'now' = bad. It's all gone to the dogs, you know. There is no societal change, just decay.

Just you wait, the zombie apocalypse will be upon us in no time. Better start stockpiling tinned and dried goods.

Oh for goodness sake Damsel go play your angry games elsewhere. Nobody said then = good. Perhaps it would do you well to actually read the posts. I am asking what we can take from the past (if anything) that was good and bring it here. Its really not difficult.

I am actually asking what we think is wrong. It could be absolutely anything. The throwaway society? The synthetic foods? The lack of responsibility? I have no idea and hence the question.

Khara I do also find that there seems to be a problem with expectation.

Well one Nan was in service at 14, one grandad left school at 13, other Nan was not allowed to get a job (too posh apparently), other grandad was gassed during the first world war. Dad was evacuated during second world war, Mum remembers the awful sound of doodlebugs flying over her home. I know in what era I'd like to have been born into and it isn't theirs.

Little family structure in many areas has lead to no real example of a strong family unit where parenting styles passed down by example.

The nanny state - treat everyone like they are morons with no need to be responsible for themselves and reap what you sow.

No consequences - heard radio 4 interview little mancunian shit this am. He was out looting because he could because other than a caution from the police and some shouting from his parents he thought nothing would happen to him.

Maybe that plays a huge role pommed. Maybe there are just not really consequences anymore. I know with my two younger ones - other than take their phones/computers and things away, there are no consequences (and I have been known to give in if they nag me to give them back). Im not teaching them very well if I give in to them.

Hello. We're going to move this thread into Parenting now - that's where it's probably belongs, we think.

Well obviously everyone on this thread is much younger than I as my GPs were Victorians. They didn't do much parenting- both mine and DH's GPs packed their sons off to board at 5, prior to that they had nanny do most of the parenting.

Most people had extremely large families because infant and childhood mortality rates were so high.

There were still many many people back then that disengaged from society, and did not pay attention to its rules and its laws. People (mainly white mc religious types) pontificated then too about the underclass, those that were sub-society and what should be done with them.

Is this for an article then? I haven't seen you around before...
ANd why 'no denial' if 'denialistheway'?