quick survey of 4 year old boys

[elliott]

OK another try to shed some light on my problem with ds1. He is nearly 4 (Monday!) and we are still having problems with wet pants, 18 months after potty training. My questions for those of you with nearly 4 or just 4 year old boys are:

1. How much do you insist/suggest he goes to the toilet? Never, occasionally (e.g. before going on long journey or at bedtime) or several times a day? (My approach - trying to leave it to him, but will usually ask him to go before we leave to go out somewhere or to come home again. The number of accidents he has depends on how much he is left to it).
2. how reliable is he? i.e. how often does he wet badly enough to need a change of pants and trousers? and how often might he have slightly damp pants? (at the moment - he is wet enough to need a change about once a day).
3. Is he dry at night, and if so did you wait until he was usually dry in the morning before taking him out of nappies at night, or did you try in spite of wet nappies in the morning? (for us - ds1 used to be dry about 50% of mornings; I tried about 6 months ago to train but gave up; now he has a very wet nappy most mornings).
4. Have you found any techniques to be helpful so far down the line from initial potty training? (I have tried star charts with pretty limited success.)

Thanks. trying to work out if ds1 is average and therefore I just need to wait a while, or whether there is something else I should be doing to try and help him improve

OK, ds is 4.5 so a bit older but hasn't changed much in the last year as far as this goes:

1. Occasionally, usually when I see him hopping around holding onto his willy because he's so desperate but can't be bothered to go to the loo.

2. Pretty reliable, not wet himself fully for about a year now. However, often a bit damp following leakage from all the hopping about avoiding going to the loo.

3. No, and nowhere near it. We have tried a couple of times following runs of dry nappies but it's not consistent so we're just waiting now. He's often quite wet in the morning.

4. Star charts were useless for us on this one, seemed to stress him. The only thing that has worked for us has been leaving him to get on with it.

DS is 4.1 - I potty trained him at about 2.3 and he "got it" really well. Although I'm answering this from the vantage point of a "successful" wee-er, I'm honestly only trying to be helpful.

1. A lot. I insist he goes before trips to shops, school etc etc (employ overly bright voice and say "ooh, lets all go and have a wee wee before we go out, shall we?") I ask him if he wants to go when he is jigging up and down and holding his willy (to which he usually replies"no" and then 30 seconds later sprints off and does one). He does go at his own prompting when we are at home, but I will not let him out unless he has either done one or I know he has done one within the last 15 mins. (Forgot to ask him the other day and he had to do a wee in the gutter perilously close to school as other yummy mummies were whizzing past in 4x4s - a good reminder of why I need to keep on asking)

2. Very reliable - he hasn't had wet pants for about 18-20 months. But I strongly suspect the constant promptings mean that he never gets to crisis point.

3. Yes. We have a wet bed about once every 6 months. About 2 months after he was potty trained he refused to go in his nappy at night. BUT he used to call out when he wanted to go in the middle of the night and we had to go up a flight of stairs, take his nappy off, put him on the toilet and then put his nappy back on. Hasn't worn nappies at night for about 18-20 months. We still get the odd call in the night that he needs a wee - sometimes does it himself but often is a bit sleepy/disorientated and needs direction to get to the bathroom. (I would take continued nappy wearing over this ANY DAY!)

His cousin - 5.6 - still wears nappies at night, as does the girl down the road (4.3). DS has just started kindergarten (3&4 year olds) and I know from the other mothers that there have been a lot of wet pants in the class, plus a lot of them still wear nappies at night.

HTH - I'm always fascinated and very reassured to know what others are up to. BTW, he cannot wipe his own bottom - that's my next challenge!

DS1 4.5 trained since just over 2, never remind him to go and had first accident in a year last week, BUT any attempts to night train have failed still wears a nappy, HV told me not to worry about it unless he got to 6.

Hi. My ds1 is 4.2. We've had some great success and some not...On the on hand, he's been theoretically trained since last summer (ie age under 3) and dry at night since just over 3. But...

1. This is still a bit of a battle with us. He'll still wet himself just after I've asked if he needs a wee. He says the wee just came. I think there are two sensations, one of needing to wee and the other of the wee actually coming, and he doesn't always recognise the first. However, he HATES being told/asked to go to the loo.

2. Back end of last week - three times a day.

3. He was starting to be reliably dry in the morning and dh kept forgetting to put his pull up pants on when he took ds to bed.

Recent tactics have included withdrawing 'favourite pants privileges' if he wets too often and laying it on REALLY THICK when he got nappy rash on his inner thighs after he sat in wet pants all afternoon at nursery .

I do try really hard not to be cross with him, when I know that he can do this if he wants to. Sometimes, when he repeats my 'it doesn't matter', I want to say 'but it DOES matter'........

DS1 is now 4y2m. He's been dry in the day, reliably, since about 2y8m. I think.

1. I almost never remind him to wee. Before the bath, and before journeys. Oh, and he does the hopping, the denial, and the running. Like everyone else's kid, it turns out.

2. Almost never. He sometimes has a tiny wet spot in his pants. When we're out, sometimes he ends up going and weeing on a tree outside, if nowhere more appropriate is available.

3. He's been dry at night for almost as long as in the day - but we only took off the nappies when he was reliably dry in the morning, as there's no point in it otherwise.

Hi my ds is a bit younger at 3.8 years but not much. I toiltet trained him at 2.5.

1. I now have to suggest a trip to teh loo several times a day, before a trip out and during play when I notice him hopping around. It is often more than suggessting - sometimes I have to physically remove him and take him myself

2. He wets badly enough to change pants/trousers definatley once, sometimes twice a day.

3. Still in pull ups ant night time and they are sodden the next day.

Well I am finding this very reassuring - even if the responses are skewed to the problem end, it means ds1 is not alone....

Basically if I go down the anchovy route (!) and prompt him regularly, he stays dry (but we do get into a battle about it hence I am trying to devolve responsibility!). If I leave him to it, he doesn't have 'full' accidents (nowhere near the whole lot) but is often wet enough to have a damp patch on his trousers and to be a bit smelly . He will rush to the toilet (or need to go RIGHT NOW if out and about) and may or may not get there in time. When he is tired and sitting eating or watching TV is the highest risk time - it just seems to seep out and he can't be bothered to move...
I should say that at nursery he seems to cope, but his pants are often pretty smelly at the end of the day so I suspect he is having small 'leaks' pretty regularly there.
Seems like I need to just wait it out and keep on the positive motivation. I wish it didn't frustrate me so much!

DS was trained at 2.2 and is now 4.9.

1. Before long journeys (1 hour plus)and at bedtime. Sometimes in a morning. "have you done a wee yet?" Who doesn't need to go when they get up?
2. Sometimes can go months but has had one since he started school at CMs. Also wet the bed on Sunday night but this is because I forgot to make him go to the loo before bed because we had visitors including his baby cousin also in the bath.
3. He was dry at night from 3.5 when we decided to force the issue. Think he could have managed from younger but I was pregnant and couldn't face it.
4. Not really.

I have a 4yo girl & she has most of the problems you list, Elliott. We have to frog-march her to the toilet else she wets herself or gives herself UTIs from fighting the urge to go or suddenly needs to go 5 minutes after I asked her if she needed to go (next to the toilet) so I end up having to hold her over a drain somewhere at least once a week, almost daily, probably.

She's sodden overnight, too.

My DS was pretty reliable (including dry at night) from before 2.5yo, so totally different.

So it seems the picture is that some kids are good at controlling themselves, some aren't. Does this mean its mainly a physical thing they will grow out of or is there an element of wilfulness or possibly learned behaviour that could be unlearned given the right incentives?

ds was 4 two weeks ago.

1. Always before going out. Always before bed. Take him with me if we are out and about for a long time. If I left it to him, he would tell me right at the last minute (cue holding penis etc.!)
2. Fairly reliable but that's only improved in the last few months.
3. Yes. We did it in spite of wet nappies in the morning.
4. We did incentivise him with football cards and chocolate for the night time wetting but only when we really thought he could do it!

My ds was four in Sept. I remind him particularly when he is tired. Also I make him go (cue yelling) if we are about to go out for a long time to a place where there are no toilets. Otherwise I try to leave it to him but ask him very frequently if he needs to go at all.
He is still not as reliable as most. Will still have accidents at nursery sometimes (is ther 9 -4 two days a week) and sometimes poo accidents there or at home. Hate these. Happens maybe once a week, sometimes more.
He wears pullups at night. He wets in his sleep.

He is dyspraxic and I think it's connected. Hope he will have improved by the time he starts school in Sept.
I try very, very hard to stay calm and matter of fact re the accidents. Just talk about 'next time' when he will tell me or go to the loo.
Think a downstairs loo would help us, but there's nowhere to install one.

I suppose my problem is that I think ds1 could do better if he only tried a bit harder, and that makes me frustrated and impatient with him. Not to mention a bit sick of having to change his pants all the time and STILL take spares out in case. I am trying to be matter of fact about his accidents but I do insist that he has to get himself changed - including fetching new clothes if we are at home and putting the dirty ones in the wash (he doesn't mind this actually).
It also seems to be worse now than it has been for a while, which puzzles me - though it might be that I'm consciously backing off making him go.

Quick hijack. Aloha, I've read some of the things you say about your DS with interest as I think he is almost exactly the same age as mine (I remember you had his 4th birthday party on the same day as my DS). My older brother was probably dyspraxic (He was the first person we ever know to be diagnosed as dyslexic, diagnosed in GOSH in the early 70's when no one had ever heard of it and the initial thought was maybe some mild type of brain damage. I believe dyslexia and dyspraxia often go together). He had very poor coordination, low muscle tone and a kind of inability to "process" instructions into physical action - could not catch or kick a ball, tie a shoelace, tie a tie etc for years and years. Organised sports were, in his early school years, a complete closed book to him I just remembered from your post that he was also very late, compared to the rest of us, to be dry at night and I'm SURE there was some connection. Anyway he is now, um 42 I think, and ENTIRELY co ordinated - plays sport regularly (including kick boxing which I think you probably need to be quite well co ordinated for). He caught up, just at a later age. CAT me if you want any details - it honestly no longer is an issue for him.

Sorry, hijack over.

Well i feel better after reading this! Was starting to worry cos can't get Ds2 out of nappies at night at 4+1mth as ds1 was dry before turned 3.
Is fine in day, also does the holding willy jiggling thing, says no don't want one then runs 5 mins later. Allways make him before go out or end up weeing in bushes or coming off motorway to cries of "it's coming out of my willy any minute!" Just goes to show that children are all very different yet strangely alike in many ways.

Anchovy, that is lovely to read, it really is. I'm so pleased it came together for your brother, and I do hope it does for ds. Atm he is so bright that I think he will be OK, but I would like him to be able to do things if he wants to (if that makes sense!).
And I keep reminding myself, he is only four.

My ds still does the jiggling and has accidents if I don't remind him to go - he's 5½...