What time does your 11 year old go to bed?

[dalek]

Hello ladies. I wonder if I could ask a few questions about bed for your 11 year olds and how much sleep they actually need.

My DD goes up about 8.30 but by the time she's brushed her teeth, sorted out her stuff for the next day and done some reading it's about 9.30 or 10pm. I feel that she needs more sleep but if we move bedtime earlier she just lies there unable to sleep, just tossing and turning. She has to be up about 7.15 but as she's so tired it's usually nearer 7.30 when she gets up and then we are running late and there is much shouting.

Has anybody any ideas for moving bedtime earlier and actually getting her to go to sleep. Things will get worse again next week as it's half term and bedtime and mornings will get later and then I'll be back at square one.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Sort school stuff for the next day straight after tea, hover about upstairs when she is doing teeth etc (mine can waste a good 20mins miming into mirror with toothbrush), blackout curtains for the summer?
A 'be in bed by 8.50 or no reading time' rule?
Has she got older siblings that stay up later?
None of these are foolproof btw, just things that have (occasionally) worked for us

DS1 starts getting ready for bed at 7:30, after DS2 goes to bed. He spends about half an hour in the bathroom and then is allowed to read or listen to an audiobook for half an hour and it's lights out/sleep at 8:30. He gets up at 6:50 (mostly so he can spend 25 minutes in the shower).

I'd just start the whole process earlier and get some blackout curtains. Her body will become accustomed to the earlier bedtime and she'll sleep easier.

DS1 finds listening to audiobooks very relaxing before he goes to sleep. It's less mental effort for him than reading it himself.

Does she watch tv or play videogames in the evening. You could have a no tv or videogames rule after a cut off time (dinner/teatime or 5pm or something). That might help her wind down easier.

Keep bedtimes and waking times the same for half term if it'll spoil your routine. It'll do her no harm.

Get her to do everything she needs for the next day before you have tea/dinner, so the time after that is all winding down time.

This sounds odd, but it might help to approach it a but like a toddler and implement a clear routine with markers so that her body learns to become tired and sleep at the right time. Obviously you want different markers in your routine, but it could be that having a warm shower, brushing her teeth, getting into PJs and then listening to an audiobook or reading for a set amount of time helps her.

Thanks for your replies - will have a think about them.