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Parenting

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Original poster

'Disciplining' an 17mo

28 replies

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 15:11

I hesitated over using the word 'disciplining', but I'm not sure what else to call it.

My ds is 17mo and is very confident and boisterous. He is sunny by nature, and an easy going little chap.

However, he is very, erm, physical with other children. By that I mean he is always poking them and prodding them, and with dd this extends to hitting her on the head with things and rugby tackling her.

And, well, I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it. I tell him 'NO' very firmly, look him in the eye, and he just smiles.

I don't want him to be the kid that others keep their dc away from, and some of my friends are starting to refer to him as naughty.

Any advice?

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Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 15:46

Bump

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thisisyesterday · 18/05/2011 15:49

just be vigilant, when he does it then stop him and tell him no. maybe show him how he can do things gently, like gently stroking someone's arm or giving them a hug.
if he continues to do it then remove him from the situation completely

Cartoonjane · 18/05/2011 15:52

I used to do what you describe ie the very firm 'No' looking in the eye. If that doesn'tr work I would remove him form the situation swiftly so he makes a link, either onto a naughty step or just onto your lap/ out of the room. This can be for quite a short time. When you put him back if he does the same again remove him again and so on. I don't think a child has to understand the reasons to associate a consequence with a particular action. If you simply want him to stop something you can do it, albeit maybe with a lot of effort on your part. I think it's worth it in the long run. I have a couple of friends who didn't tackle the sort of thing you describe who now have out of control six year olds on their hands.

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mousymouse · 18/05/2011 15:54

I would tell him no! (going down on his level and looking at him) and remove him from the situation, just a few feet away from the other child. repeat as neccessary...

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 15:58

My BF has two dds and delights in telling me she 'couldn't have coped with a boy' 'wouldn't have known what to do with a boy' 'would have had a really naughty boy' etc etc etc. And she has just told me that she thinks he is naughty, so I need to try and nip this er, boisterous behaviour in the bud before he gets a reputation!

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chocolatecrispies · 18/05/2011 15:59

We had this problem with our ds who is now 2.10. He was pushing and hitting other children on a regular basis from the age of about 15 months. It got to the stage when I dreaded taking him out. I was also doing the firm 'no'' and it got us absolutely nowhere, he just laughed and did it again. We saw the ed psych at the children's centre which was really helpful. Initially when he was younger she suggested really intensive praise for any good behaviour (which basically meant when he wasn't pushing), and suggesting alternatives i.e. 'instead of hitting him you could say 'hello', oh well done, that's great'. We also started doing some regular rough and tumble play with him but with clear boundaries - if he overstepped them then the play stopped. We also tried to seek out robust other children to play with! This helped keep the behaviour under control but it carried on and going out with him was stressful. I also found it very hard to work out what to do with a child who was so young and couldn't really understand what we said in detail. We also bought a couple of books 'hands are not for hitting' and 'hair is not for pulling' from Amazon.

When he was 2.5 the problem was still there and this time the ed psych came to visit us at home. She obviously thought the problem was that our firm 'no' wasn't firm enough, but within 5 mins of her walking through the door he was hitting her and her firm 'no' had no impact at all. She then suggested that since 'no' didn't work we should stop saying it because she thought it was making our interactions with him quite negative, and instead we started a time out system. If he hits or kicks or pushes he goes automatically to time out - we don't say no and there is no discussion about it. In time out he is held by me, facing away from me and there is no attention until he is calm again and ready to go back and say sorry, and not do it again. We do issue warnings beforehand and I also sometimes use stickers as rewards for good behaviour through a whole stay and play. I was dubious about doing this when he was younger as I didn't think he would understand but at this age it has worked like a dream - within a month of starting the system the pushing stopped completely and now we rarely use time out.

Sorry not to be more helpful about your ds though - as I said we struggled at that age and really didn't find solutions until later on. Apparently this sort of behaviour is not labelled as 'problem' behaviour until they are three, it's just part of the normal spectrum.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:01

Thanks for all the advice. I don't think he's a 'problem child' just yet.

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Iggly · 18/05/2011 16:01

He's only little and won't fully understand a naughty step or even why he shouldn't do it.

I've been teaching and showing DS how to touch things gently and it's working (not always). I still say no but will also sat gentle. For example he's hit me before and when I said gently, he then stroked me.

Also try distraction and getting him out of a situation before it happens, if you can.

The idea that boys are more boisterous is stereotypical nonsense from what I've witnessed!

DS is 19 months BTW.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:03

I know, Iggly, deep down I'm worried that he's going to be a really violent thug. He is absolutely lovely most of the time.

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chocolatecrispies · 18/05/2011 16:04

No, of course I didn't mean that he was a problem child, just that I found lots of the books didn't seem to address this age group because they said it was normal behaviour and not a problem, whereas it definitely was for us! They also said unhelpful things like 'all this age group needs is a firm no and distraction' whilst my ds definitely needed more than that in order to stop. Good luck.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:05

S'ok chocolatecrispies - I am rather touchy about it. Not sure why.

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ShowOfHands · 18/05/2011 16:06

I've been very fortunate not to have to deal with this thus far so my advice only comes from a theoretical opinion.

Firstly, he is not naughty or bad and it's not your fault. He's very different to dd isn't he? It's sometimes important to know if there's a reason for it? Does he do it at particular times? Like if he's frustrated or is he struggling with waiting a turn? If there is something like that then you work at teaching him ie work on lots and lots of sharing, turn taking type stuff. But I suspect he's just a bit exuberant from what I know of him and he's exploring the world?

Whatever you do, it's important that you're consistent. I think for the sake of the other children and the other parents you have to step in the second it happens and stop the behaviour physically. What you do then is your decision and depends upon parenting style (I have no style). The word 'no' alone isn't working and it's probably just a noise you're making and he isn't sure what to do in response to it. So...

You can show him what you would prefer him to do. This is what I do when dd did anything less than desirable. It requires you not caring what you look like, embracing your ability to look like a Mad Person and modelling a better way. So lots of joining in, interacting and explaining that this is how you use your hands, using the same words again and again like 'clap' or 'gentle' or 'wave'. Whatever you're doing. If he repeats the undesirable behaviour you stop him again physically and quickly join in again with the big gestures and a better way. It's a mixture of distraction and modelling and he will forget the undesirable behaviour and be so enthralled by your enthused grinning and gesticulating that he'll join in appropriately. And he just learns there's a better way.

It's never too early to talk. At home don't think that 'no' is the limit of his understanding. Talk to him, not crossly or in confrontation but tell him when you're proud of the way he's playing with dd (I'm sure you do anyway), praise when he uses his hands and feet to do things that you approve of like stroking or cuddling or kicking or throwing a ball. If he does something you don't approve of, step straight in and be clear about what you expect of him. He's old enough to begin understanding when you say 'ds we don't use our hands that way' and then more of the mad distraction.

You know what I think, like most things they do grow out of it, as long as you've taken the time to jump on it as soon as it happens and to show them more appropriate things which you will always be pleased to see and praise them for. I forget how hard that age is sometimes. You do just have to give up the idea of a cup of tea and a chat and get down there on the floor and show him. While he's too young to be told and to respond appropriately to a simple 'no' then you have to get down there on his level and show him.

Iggly · 18/05/2011 16:06

Yes I know what you mean! DS is quite stocky and very energetic so I worry the same. But showing him what to do and praising him for it seems to have some impact. I had read somewhere that toddlers don't have self control so hard for them not to do something - so if you show them what to do it can help.

I also find DS gets more "hitty" if tired or hungry so I try and calm him down or take him home.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:08

I'm not sure why he does it, he isn't what I would describe as angry or aggressive. I'm not sure if he's trying to provoke dd when he does it, or whether he is just exploring. I don't know.

OP posts:

ShowOfHands · 18/05/2011 16:11

I don't agree with time out at all. At that age it's a strange and arbitrary thing to do anyway. He wouldn't understand it at all. If you remove him from the situation, it should be for the safety of him and others around him. And if you just move him away and make him sit on a chair for a minute and a half and he doesn't understand why he learns nothing. He doesn't get taught anything. You know me PeeeeJay, I'm an old hippy. It's all about showing them a better way and guiding them through it so that they are equipped with the skills to make the right decision when they have to.

ShowOfHands · 18/05/2011 16:15

Can you imagine being inside this body that is physically capable of all sorts of things but not having the verbal capacity to match it? Or the life experience to temper your curiosity?

It must be bloody weird. And we take them to these rooms full of toys and things to climb and expect them to navigate through the thorny situations of sharing and interacting with these hoardes of snotty, strange, noisy children who also don't talk and don't seem to serve a purpose unlike the big people who at least clean them and bring food at regular intervals.

I'd prod people too.

Iggly · 18/05/2011 16:17

I think it's normal toddler behaviour TBH!

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:20

SOH

Thanks Iggly, that's the comment I was looking for!

OP posts:

ShowOfHands · 18/05/2011 16:25

It's completely normal. Take a look around in any place where there are children gathered. They're always trying to take lumps out of each other.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 18/05/2011 16:27

I think it's bothering me because my cousin has just been to stay for three days, and although her ds is seven months older than my ds, he seemed to spend the entire three days crying and running away from him. Possibly made me a bit paranoid!

OP posts:

Iggly · 18/05/2011 16:55

Your cousin's kid clearly isn't used to this! DS gets poked and prodded and I'm amazed - he just stands there and looks bemused

AngelDog · 18/05/2011 20:16

I agree with SOH entirely. I'd say something like 'hitting hurts: touch gently please' and show him how to touch gently.

AngelDog · 18/05/2011 20:17

Actually, I did this with my DS (now 16 m.o.) when he was pinching me during feeding. Now if I ask him to do something 'gently' he stops what he was doing and starts patting me instead - even if I was asking him to do something completely different. :)

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 18/05/2011 21:00

Agree with SOH. Ds also understands gentle (practiced on the dog...modeling gentle stroking and saying gentle...don't just use it when you want them to be gentle or "gentle" = rough iyswim!)

We don't use "no" as an instruction. It's too arbitary and doesn't convey enough information (eg what you are asking them not to do and why). Keep it for emergencies.

Simic · 18/05/2011 21:11

If you ask me, there is an issue here about what other people are saying to you. People around you seem to have issues around:
labelling boys as "naughty"
labelling energetic play as "naughty".
Of course, no one wants their child to be hurt by another child, but quite a lot of what you´ve been saying seems to be more about other people´s reactions as much as your child´s actual behaviour.
Maybe you can nip those reactions in the bud too?? - or as someone said, spend some time with friends who also have boisterous kids or at least realise that this is completely normal.
I´ve recently read "Playful Parenting" by Lawrence Cohen and I think he´s got great tips for helping children to work through anything and everything through play - and he talks quite a lot about rough-housing and playing with children so that they get to try out how powerful they can be and come away feeling happy and powerful - having tried it out against YOU in controlled, safe play - rather than someone getting hurt. He also talks a lot about gender stereotyping...

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