Picking your battles vs total defiance

[JumpJockey]

DD1 is 2 and 3 months and boy do we know it. I know the advice about piocking your battles and not sweating the small stuff etc, but where do you draw the line that stops them getting away with murder and thinking she can do what she likes? EG we had trouble today with the following:

• refusing to get dressed
• running away in the nursery car pasrk (I know! I was trying to strap dd2 into the buggy and she bolted, didn't have a free hand to hold her as well)
• taking all the grocery shopping out of a bag and into the garden
• refusing to bring same items back inside
• dropping her dinner plate on the floor then kicking food around
• refusing to stand up and get out of the bath (wouldn't have been too bad but I also have a cluster feeding 2 month old so need her to co-operate)

In each of these I asked her to do something, she didn't. Offered her a sticker for being helpful and doing the right thing, she said no. Tried counting to three and in one case threatened throwing away a favourite toy (did this before and she was able to earn it back by good behaviour). What makes it really hard is that when I'm tryting to get her attention she just turns away and laughs.

Is this typical 2 year old behaviour? Since neither carrot nor stick seems to work, how can I get her to do what I want? Reallu hate being the shouty parent but she's just so defiant and sometimes I simply have no idea what to do. Naughty step very hard to do/enforce since I'm trying to look after newborn as well. No doubt this is part of it as well...

do you think her behaviour could be as a result of being jealous of the new baby?
my 4 year old reacted in this way when i had dd2. I had thought the best way to hendle it was to give her lots of love but be very consistent and fairly hard with the discipline- thinking being -to show her she was loved but she couldnt be naughty. But she was being SOOO naughty that it was ALL discipline leaving not much time for love!! I spoke to the HV who said I needed to talk to her and really try and understand how she was feeling, completely lay off the discipline until our relationship was back on track. I didnt like the fiffy faffy sound of this but gave it a go as my way wasnt working- and she recovered pretty soon after this

yours is younger so this might not be relevant at all----good luck

JJ, I think most of it is normal 2 year old stuff although it will be worse with the arrival of dd2.
DS was / is sometimes the same with nappy changes / getting dressed etc ever since dd arrived. I saw myself starting the shouty thing but it only made me more tired and upset dd.
Fortunately ds is obsessed with either going out in the car or going out into the garden, and he would try to get out the back door still in PJ's and I just started really calmly saying "you can't go out / do that until you get dressed and put shoes on" and I would repeat it everytime he asked / tried to and I'd block out his screams and tantrums, and he got quicker and quicker at cooperating. For eg this morning he was downstairs still in PJ's and pointing at the back door as it was locked and I just calmly said "but you haven't got dressed and put your shoes on yet" (which I had already brought downstairs) and he went and got his pile of clothes and started trying to put them on in front of me.
It works really well if I have to go out too as I just tell him we can't go without a new nappy and getting dressed. I think you just need to find what it is that she REALLY likes to do and then just matter of factly tell her over and over it's not possible before getting dressed / shoes / teeth happen etc.
I def understand it's easier in theory, but I do feel your pain. it might not work for your dd but that's just what works here. I guess the good thing is (sounds like anyway) that she isn't getting violent with the new sister at least and if this is her way of expressing her jealousy and dealing with it, it's not as bad.
Good luck, and keep in mind that it will get easier.

Jump have you read how to talk? I remember DS going through a similarly nightmare phase and I found the bits about trying to empathise with them about how unreasonable the world was really helped - or making a game of it (I know isn't it dreadful you have to get out of the bath - it's the worst thing in the world or how would a pirate get out of the bath). Ignoring (when it's safe) worked for us too. I really don't think they are old enough to really understand punishment.

I think it's how to talk that has that bit about trying to think yourself into their shoes and remember that they have no idea that it's important they get dressed in 5 minutes because you're all running late and that it's very easy to unfairly translate adult stresses to them. As far as possible I try to leave plenty of time to get ready. It sounds so stupid but it was this simple thing that made me - and our house - so much less stressful. I am by nature a real last minute larry and spent far to long rushing them into shoes. Much more fun now and we often play games when we're getting ready to go out (and are sometimes early ).

Little tricks on getting dressed that work for us:

• always try to have lots of time to do it - you want to be able to leave it if you/they need to
• letting them choose clothes
• pretending to be a robot and putting the clothes on all wrong
• getting a teddy/doll dressed in their clothes
• putting them on yourself

I know - lame - but really works to make a bit of a game of it. Also makes me a bit more relaxed.

It sounds like a little thing but I find dropping down and talking to DD at her level sometimes helps. And not reacting. It is all about pushing boundaries and she'll be able to see that she is winding you up and at a time when she's feeling a bit wobbly with the baby it will be a really obvious demonstration of her impact. With DD we also do that catching her when she's being good and making a big fuss of her. I also - on my Dad's advice* - am really careful to genuinely pick battles and try to offer a face saving way out for her if possible. As soon as we are locked in combat I've lost basically because I've got to then "win" as the parent.

Having said all this, last weekend I was regretting not having a playpen to put her in she was driving me so crackers. So it doesn't always work. And be easy on yourself - it's really really hard having a toddler and a baby. Also (and I think your DD1 is quite articulate) easy to think that she is emotionally older than she is. 2 is still very little and don't think you are creating bad parenting patterns for life. I think the only "bad" thing you can do is be inconsistent because that's genuinely confusing. We have a handful of rules that we pretty much always stick to - I think little kids like a bit of structure.

*Based on bitter experience with me they find it very funny that I have a strong willed daughter of my own now

It sounds like normal 2yo behaviour coupled with jealousy of DD2 - she is trying to get your attantion and by the sound of it is succeeding - when she is naughty all your attention is directed at her! Try ignoring it completely (and her) when she is naughty. On the other hand you really have to give her your full attention when she is good (at first this will need to be when she is not actively being naughty!!) Praise her all the time. If you can give her some special time when DD2 is napping that might help.
Perservere with teh naughty step if you can - I found it really worked ith my DS at about the same age. Doesn't have to be a step - just a 'naughty mat' on the floor wherever it is easy to monitor. But remember part of this approach is still the ignoring of bad behaviour so don't keep running back to check on her or else she is still getting your attention for being naughty. It does get better!
By teh way - reins! If she makes a habit of running in carparks, near roads etc. I think they probably saved my DS life

Yes I would second the naughty step working well. DS will actually take himself to the naughty step now and sit there until I let him off it. And the threat of it actually works too, though I try not to use it too often, mostly just for beating up of DD. He tries to find ways round it though, eg "If you don't stop sitting on DD, I'll put you on the naughty step" and he'll pile toys on top of her to annoy her instead . Maybe he's cleverer than he looks.

at your DS summer

that's hilarious Summer! I thought you were going to say he thinks ahead and takes a few toys to the naughty step before he commits his naughty behaviour!

Excellent post urbane warrior, completely agree. I'm not a fan of the naughty step but each to their own of course!

Hi Jump, I'm not going to add any advice here as everyone has much better way of dealing with it than me (I have already made lts of mental notes), but I just wanted to say it sounds a lot like my DD, and as you know there is no little one here. So a lot of it must be general 2 year old behaviour. I've often thought if we had another she'd learn she couldn't just be the centre of attention all the time and would be nicer for it, but it seems that actually she'd just demand it even more! Remember, this too shall pass

thanks everone for your input, shall read and poder at leisure (hah!) and see how we can change things. I have read How to talk, but unfortunately suffer from a~) dreadful impatience and b) a total lack of imagination, so have failed to put the ideas into practice. Of course she was much better to cope with today so am feeling much more positive! We've generally been avoiding naughty step etc, but they do the Sad Spot at nursery so she's familiar with that approach. Urbs what you say about not having to win really astruck a chord, I do end up often thinking why am I engaged in a power struggle with a two year old, it shouldn't be like this!

a thread I saw earlier today which was enlightening is this one which has a few people suggesting the How to talk approach.

Try giving choices, rather than saying 'lets get you dressed' say '
'do you want to wear the red trousers or the blue trousers?' or 'do you want to get out of the bath with the green towel or the blue towel?' which completely distracts them from choice no.3 of not doing it at all!

But don't expect too much of your little one or yourself at this stage. With a two month old baby it's just a miracle if you get to the end of the day without killing someone!

Yes I was not convinced by the naughty step approach either, it is a compromise in our family as DH thinks that DS should do as he is told at all times (apparently MIL says that DH always did and we are doing something wrong as DS doesn't, sigh). But it does seem to work.

I may buy How to Talk and try and get DH to read it. He'll probably dismiss it as "hippy parenting" though .

I also suffer from impatience and last minute lateness so the patient approach doesn't work...plus you can guarantee that the one time that you don't have time to faff about playing games will be the one time they play up!! But I do agree that playing games and distraction works massively well. I told DS there was a snake in his "trouser tunnel" today and he thought it was hilarious, finally managed to get his sodding pyjamas on!

I've tried the choices thing for getting dressed - trousers or dress? and usually just get the answer No followed by her doing a headstand in her chair [sigh] I guess a lot of my stresses are caused by dd2 usually kicking off at the same time, dd1 was definitely more co-operative today during the times that dd2 was asleep in the sling so she could have my full attention.

summer, not sure that snakes in trouser tunnels would work with girls