WWYD: Settling a newborn with a toddler around

[TwigletMonster]

DS is nearly 11 weeks, DD is 2 and a bit.

DS is quite a sleepy little soul, and often needs a nap less than an hour after getting up. There seems to be a very small window during which he'll settle happily to sleep - miss the window and it's very difficult to settle him, and he'll wake frequently during the nap. Get him before he gets overtired and it's far easier, he'll settle himself if he wakes during the nap and is still tired.

However, I also have a lively, demanding (ie. normal!) toddler.

The last week has been very difficult, as DD gets tired so quickly and I often miss the signs. I then spend ages trying to settle him, which never really works as DD is running in and out of the room. When it seems like he's gone, and we start lunch, for instance, he wakes and it all starts over again.

What do others do? I have had some really bad moments this week, particularly in the morning when I have tried to get him back down and he's woken, but we're eating breakfast. I could haul DD out of the highchair and go and see to DS, but that seems unfair on DD and very disruptive. Sometimes I have left him to cry as I simply can't see how to settle him at that particular moment (eg. when also trying to get DD ready for a nap) which is horrible but I feel trapped between the two of them!

I do have a sling, which DS will nap in, but it means I can't pick DD up to get her in the highchair, for instance, so can only use to at certain times of day.

Agh! I guess I'm asking for tips on how to manage the different demands. I'm sure it will get easier - I wasn't expecting it to be naps that were the hard part of having two!!

Hello - I have a 2 year old and a 20 week old so feel your pain! My DS is the same if he gets over tired and I have missed his sleepy signals. What I find has worked for me is:

When it is a scheduled nap time for DS, then his needs take priority over my DD i.e. she can cope with being left alone for 5 mins while I sort out DS. If necessary, bribe your DD with something (Cbeebies/cake/whatever) to give you a window to settle your DS

If you know that DS needs to sleep frequently, then put him down before you even see the sleepy signs - that way he is already in his cot and (hopefully) will be able to associate being in his cot with going to sleep.

I have taught my DD to be quiet-ish when my DS has just fallen asleep i.e. no barging into the room shouting his name (doesn't always work ). Basically I just keep repeating in a hushed voice "DS is going to sleep now so we all need to be shhhhhhhh!".

Basically, I have had to learn that with 2 very small children, there will be times during the day when I have to ignore one of them in order to sort the other one out. It won't harm either of them to be left to yell or whinge for a short while....

Hope that helps!

my younger one had (well still has) a dummy which helped him settle down for naps quite quickly which definitely makes things easier. I do still tell older one that ds2 is sleeping so don't make too much noise, and i try to keep him in the living room so that he doesnt make too much noise in the coridoor outside babies room to wake him up earlier.
I personally wouldnt take your dd out the highchair to go and deal with ds, as she is kept in one place there then easier to just leave her for a minute and settle him without her coming in?? unless she is likely to start climbing out of it, being dangerous etc, then it would be much easier/quicker to just leave her there for a few min and get on with it?
there will always be sometimes when both of them need you at once, i think you just have to pick one to deal with first and try to do them as quickly as possible to move onto the other one, but its a fact of life and it probably teaches them patience/sharing so dont beat yourself up about that too much
Also if you can get your baby to be a bit adaptable with naps etc then it makes life easy, my poor ds2 got no strict routine i just tag him along with what we are doing and if he is tired he will just have to fall asleep! but luckily he has managed to get used to that, so it does make life a bit easier rather than having to just get them napping in cot all the time which ties you to the house

I always bought the moses basket downstairs first thing in the morning and kept it in the dining room which was quieter. as soon as DD showed signs of napping I just popped her in there. It was somehow less disruptive than having to take her upstairs and settle her in the cot whilst either trying to amuse DS or wondering what he was up to if I'd left him downstairs. It does get easier - the second one soon learns to fit in with the family routine. I found DD spent most of her naps in the pushchair or bouncy chair rather than the cot because it just worked better!

i have 16 months between my two.
Can you make your DS sleeps in a bouncer chair in the kitchen while you give your DD her breakfast? i used to rock the bouncer with my feet whenever i had to feed DS1. then once breakfast is done you can transfer DS in his cot?

good luck, their routines change so quickly when they are little that ive found that as soon as i had a routine sorted, they changed and needed something else... and it is still the case!!!

Dd learnt to sleep in her pram from a very young age, so that she could tag along with whatever we were doing. I have 2.5 years between mine, so that when dd came along ds's sleeps were few and far between. I well remember the joy of a synchonised daytime sleep :)

Why can't you lift dd while slinging ds? That was one of the big benefits of a sling for me. I used to hold dd1 on the toilet with dd2 in the sling when we were out and about.

Oh how I wish for a synchronised daytime sleep... do they really happen?!!

Thanks guys, this morning went well but this afternoon went a bit pear-shaped! DS had only been up for 1 hour, fed etc. then took him up for a nap but I'd missed the window and he was overtired - then cried on and off from 4.15 till bedtime .

I think that once he does an 'obvious' sleep sign, like yawning, he's already past the window. As soon as he's overtired, he starts twitching really strongly which then just keeps him awake. Are there any earlier, more subtle signs that I'm missing? Partly because of the twitching, DS sleeps on his front - he won't sleep at all on his back and his arms just flail around. I've tried the bouncy chair, but same arm issue! He will sleep in the pram when we're moving, but unless he's in a really deep sleep, he'll wake whenever we stop, even to cross the road.

Tootingbec I will try putting him down before he even looks tired, but based on this afternoon, I would be putting him down about 30 mins after he gets up!! Poor boy does nothing other than feed, sleep and cry.

Firawla I'm not comfortable leaving DD in her highchair - I'd have to go upstairs and so might not hear if she got into any trouble.

craftynclothy it might be the sling I have, or the weight of DD, but I can't lift DD properly without squashing DS and or/dropping DD.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, I'm sounding really negative but feel like I've tried everything I can think of, and am starting to feel like I'm missing something really obvious, and a bit of a failure! Knowing that DS is overtired isn't helping me to solve it for him

I have the same concerns. dS1 is 2.4 yrs and ds2 is 14 weeks. DS2 can go no longer than 1 hour between waking and his next sleep and so by the time I've changed and fed him it's almost time to put him back down again.
I'm forever telling DS1 to be quiet as DS2 is sleeping and I feel awful. It's so unfair to not let a toddler make lots of noise but I'm so concerned with sleep.
I've not tried putting him upstairs for sleeps but will try that tomorrow to see if that helps.
It's really difficult being torn between their needs

Try not to feel negative. Having teo is really hard work at times. I know there are times when it feels like all you do is juggle them and their needs. It does get easier as they get bigger, though there's still lots of juggling

Natural Mamas forum has loads of advice on slings and you can often pick up a bargain (or could maybe find someone near you who could lend you one/some to try).

I have 3 under 4 , so it can get complicated.

With the baby I have a buggy in the house, I put her in there kind of sat up in it, not strapped in with toys etc. When she goes quiet, I just put the back down and push her to sleep then I push the buggy to a quiet corner of the house (which varies from day to day depending on what is going on) and let her rest there. I put a portable monitor in with her. She now associates this with sleep, and likes sitting in the buggy because she is sat at eye level with the others and feels included in their activities.

I used to use slings initially but i find them a bit hot and i have big boobs so it all gets a bit jumbled up and heavie

TwigletMonster - I had the same problem with DS2 (and am about to have it again with DC3 and TWO toddlers racing about!) With regard to lifting toddler while wearing a sling, I used to get a kitchen chair, get DS1 to stand on it, then swing him into the highchair - found I could do that without squashing baby in sling. Only if DS1 was feeling co-operative though!

And with regard to napping, I couldn't (and still can't) get DS2 to sleep in cot when I'm alone in the house with DS1 - DS1 doesn't like being left alone and just isn't quiet enough if he comes along. So poor old DS2 has a lot of his naps in the pushchair (I used to disapprove of that!) I time outings for his naptime, and he goes off instantly like a little lamb. Now, he's so accustomed to it that he'll fall asleep before the pushchair even leaves the house - so sometimes, we don't leave the house, so I'm not always tied to pushing around the place while he sleeps. It's not ideal, but DS2 is a happy little boy who walked & talked early so can't be doing too much harm. Hate to think what depths I'll plunge to with DC3...

Thanks all, it's not really improving much. DS has been awake since 6am with only a small 10 min nap on the way to nursery.

I feel very despondent that it's only 10am and already the whole day seems destined to be spent with a very tired DS. As he's already overtired, it's unlikely he'll sleep for the rest of the day. I veer between feeling sorry for him that he is tired and unhappy, and feeling incredibly frustrated that he won't give in to sleep. Is this common?

I feel such a failure, as I know what the problem is (i.e. massive overtiredness making him very upset) but I seem powerless to fix it for him. I'm his mum and yet I can't help him and he's only 12 weeks old.

My DH is becoming frustrated as he is suggesting solutions (like let him sleep in the pram) but I feel like I've tried all these (he won't sleep in the pram unless we're moving, if he's overtired, like now, and I stop, he'll wake instantly) and I'm dismissing them because I do genuinely feel like I've tried everything, and still failed. I am frustrated at DH because I feel like he doesn't understand what it's really like to be stuck at home all day with a screaming baby and a toddler who is becoming increasingly resentful of the baby. DD has started to join in when DS cries which is hard to handle.

Oh, woe is me. I'm getting to the stage where I am leaving DS to cry as he is grumpy when he's awake but can't get to sleep. This isn't making the situation any better, I know, but at the moment it's the only thing I seem capable of doing. Help!! He is such a happy soul on the rare occasions that he is neither tired or crying, poor boy.

I hate myself that I can leave him to cry, but I don't seem to be able to muster any kind of feeling towards actually wanting to help him. The thought of the day ahead (and many more like it) is making me feeling very anxious, upset and angry