So why do you think 20% of women are child free at 40?

[twirlaround]

I am thinking there are a lot of different reasons, increasing numbers of fertility problems being one.

For the women I know it is simply because they have not met the right man - nothing to do with "putting your career first" as the media love to say!

What do you think is the most common reason?

I think the percentage of childless women in Germany is significantly higher - not sure of exact figures - due to dire childcare, it seems many women there choose to focus on their career rather than starting a family.
Apparently Germany's demographic time-bomb is enormous, and the new government will absoultely have to address this

I got together with my dp at 22 or 23 - I was 32 when ds was born! I didn't really want kids until I was 29 or 30, too busy doing other things with my life. NOw though, I kind of wish I'd started having kids earlier...no point hinking like that
though, because of course, as someone else said, until you actually have children you don't know what you've been missing.

I met a German woman last year, who told me that she had spent so long at university that she absolutely had to build up her career and couldnt afford to have children. I found this fairly strange, as I got my first real graduate job when I already had 2 small children!

I know several other childless 40 year olds, they are all either shy or have some sort of problem that they havent managed to fix(dominating parents, mental illness in youth). One of them protests that she doesnt want children or to get married, but it isnt convincing to me, anyway.

I see several different reasons:

Women getting messed around by guys and having to start new relationships in their late 30s

Women getting involved with older men who have first families and don't want more kids - something that can eventually lead to great tensions and splitting up

Women being forced to work too hard - not "putting their career first" in a calculating way, but finding their jobs leave little spare time to meet people, or the stress contributes to miscarriages if they do have a partner

And sadly, even among my own friends, sometimes women being unbelievably fussy, judgemental and unrealistic... at 40 not every man will look like Hugh Grant, or agree to babies within a few weeks of meeting

But I also know some 40-year-old men who are desperate to have kids too, and haven't got a partner!

I have a friend who is 33, but her husband is 50. When they married, 8 years ago, he wanted kids but she wasn't ready yet. By last year, she felt ready, BUT he had decided he was too old by then to start a fanily.
She seems now to have resigned herself to the idea of not having kids...but I often wonder, if she had decided to marry a different man, whether she would be facing life without kids.
Incidentally, they have dog who is more trouble than a baby - and more spoiled!

I have three friends in their late 30's who are all totally desperate for a baby.

One has long term bf, who says no way, but she just can't ignore her feelings.
One, who hasn't had any form of real relationship for years, who is considering sperm donation.

One, in quite new, very good relationship. Bf not sure. She is thinking of giving him an ultimatum.
I thought this was a very bad idea - she could be left without a baby and without a loving partner.
Then will have to start searching for new bf. Whilst trying to disguise the 'desperate for baby, that she has tatoo'd on her forehead !!

But I didn't say anything, because I felt that it was inappropriate for me to comment.
I do have ds, thus can not really comprehend the way they feel.

I feel sorry for all three.
But I don't understand why this has come as such a shock to all of them.

When I was about 26, I thought about what I would do if I didn't meet dh, didn't get married, didn't have children.

It did occur to me.
Many ladies seem to get into their mid thirties and then suddenly it dawns on them.
Then by the time they reach late thirties, they are totally desperate.

How come it takes so long to register ?

Believe it or not, some women aren't maternal and don't actually like kids.... SHOCK HORROR! I couldn't stand kids until I had my own.

Many of my "older" woman friends are desperate for kids but are either not in relationships, or their current partners arent interested.

I only know of one who recently had the courage to say to her DP that she wanted kids and since she wasnt getting any younger, if he was sure he didnt want them, as much as she loves him, she would have to move on or regret it for the rest of her life.

I couldnt have said it better than ALOHA though.

my friends in their forties without kids have all tried hard to channel their feelings into other people's kids (including mine) to mitigate the pain they say they feel. I blame the long hours culture for people not meeting the right partner early enough. It's not that these women are career obsessed but unless you meet someone in the office (where you spend huge swathes of time), it can be pretty hopeless trying to meet anyone at all.

All my girlfriends who havent had children still have not met Mr Right.And they are now in their 40's.I was certainly late finding him,had 1st child at 36 and second at 41.Anyone out there wanting a baby at 41 it is not too late,you are not too old!!

I didn't meet my husband until I was 28 - but I made it crystal clear that if he didn't want children soon we might as well not bother! Fortunately he stuck around. We had ds when I was 31 and dd when I was 33. My step sister is 34 and has two failed engagements behind her, is a career woman and is now with a married man but hides the fact she is is very sad not to be married with kids. I have another friend who has been pushed and pushed by her parents to make a career for herself and now feels she is on the cusp of achieving everything but she's 33 and doesn't know what to do about kids (she has just got married). I feel like shrieking at her not to leave it too late but obviously haven't. So I think it is a mixture of reasons. In general women and men expect a dream house, material wealth and to have travelled the world before they have children. My parents generation didn't.... IMO of course.

My theory to everything ...

In past, women have a pretty mudane low skilled job if any, left the family home to go straight to the marital one, raise kids, cook, clean, etc.
Men, get a job, leave family home straight to marital one, have kids, work til you drop, wife looks after all things domestic.

Nowadays, women have better more stimulating jobs, leave family home to live on their own/with pals/with partner etc., realise they can be financially independent and enjoy pursuits unheard of by the previous generation.
Men, get a job, enjoy all sorts of boy type pursuits, leave family home to live with pals/alone/partner without ever having to comit to anything.

So, women are more choosy than just looking for anyone to set up home with because they have higher expectations. Men, knowing women can stand on their own two feet, know that they can enjoy the company of the opposite sex without having to commit to anything. Time ticks by .....

I know so many late 30s females who are single but who would love to have met the right chap and be setting up home. The ones who finally do meet someone then find a reluctance on the bloke's part to commit. When they finally commit to marriage, they are reluctant to have kids. Basically everyone has enjoyed the good life and experienced so much more than previous generations so they need more boxes to tick before setting up home and having a family.

the way I see it is that there are fewer and fewer good family orientated men than in my parents' times and those out there of suitable age are already been taken. simple.

I am the only one of my late 30s friends that has managed a child at 36 and I am now single mum of 39 (years old). if I had found a decent man I would have had a family earlier I am sure. I waited and the one I chosen was useless in the end.

yes we were brought up to aspire to independence/good job first. Thank my dad for that! At least I was able to dump the dickeheads I have been involved with and I am now able to provide a decent standard of living for me and my daughter without putting up with second best.

maybe the future is to stop waiting and have the child early-ish anyway through a unsure relationship with a good speciman (a la Madonna when she had Lourdes) and rely on ourselves to bring them up, which is likely to happen anyway.

ooooh controvertial?

Have not met right man.
Numbers of 'right men' diminishing because standards are higher - women want a partner, not a husband to look after in the old fashioned sense.
Choice for women - birth control as well as access to financial independence through jobs - which means that more women actually find life fun and fulfilling without children
Choice for men. They don't have to fall into the pattern of wife to look after you, who also then has - and 100% cares for - kids, so they are declining to be fathers, even where they are happy in a committed relationship.
House prices / decreased access to social housing. By the time you have a place / place big enough for a kid, you are practically menopausal.

I think all the answers on this thread are perceptive and true. And nothing like what the Daily Mail would have you believe! Odd that.
Did anyone see today's Mail? Long term contraception available at drs is the government fast-tracking us all to slapperdom, apparently. Sheesh.

Because they've been reading mumsnet!

Good luck to them IMO.

Once you have kids you spend your entire life worrying. If someone asked me if they were being selfish not having kids I'd say no. I brought 2 kids into this world and I feel guilty on their behalf sometimes for doing it. I was the selfish one. I had them because dh and I wanted them but look at the way the world is, it's definitely getting worse.

It really annoys me when women of a certain age are asked about kids just because they haven't any. If they are infertile or just haven't met the right person it must be gut wrenching when it's mentioned. And if it's just a matter of choice it's probably rather irritating.

I had no 1 at 37 & no 2 at 40. Why? We had been married for 10 years when no.1 arrived, we knew we had a problem for 9 years. We spent over £9,000 on ICSI, a type of IVF (but have 2 gorgeous kids to show for it!). Sadly my husbands nanny died & this resulted in the money becoming available, otherwise I would have had no. 1 at around 28! it's such a shame that the death of a loved one enabled us to have the great grandchildren she would have loved to have seen!

Agree with Pagan. I think on the whole in the past 20 years there have been much more options open to women than getting married and having kids, so if they aren't particularly bothered, they didn't have to do it. Careers and solo lifestyles which were unimaginable by women of the previous generation are freely acheivable now. Why limit your opportunities by having a family before you want to/if you don't want one? It's as simple as that.

The other side of the coin is, if you leave it later, you're going to find it harder to conceive. But it's not impossible. I find it highly amusing that some posters consider that they had their first child late in life, when they were only 32! I think that's more or less statistically average now, isn't it?

Of course, there are also women who desperately want children but can't conceive. But that's a different ketle of fish altogether.

I don't think the world is getting worse actually. Think my children have an infinitely better chance of a long, healthy, comfortable life than at any other time in history.

I'm not sure really. My inital thoughts would be about women not finding the "right" partner but, I have several friends who are happily married to the "right" men and are putting having children back because it doesn't fit with their lifestyle, careers or are plainly scared of taking the challenge.

Also, not selfish to have children. LIfe is WONDERFUL! It's amazing and we cling on to it desperately. HOw lucky we all are to be alive.
My kids have a lovely happy life, and I hope will go on to contribute to humanity in the future even if it is in a very small way.