Calling All Gina Ford Mum's!

[Susiet]

I was wondering if any of you Gina Ford mum's out there have joined the "Contented Little Baby Club"? I am desperate to get in touch with other Gina mum's and organise social events etc.. I live in Bedford and am finding it very hard to make new friends now that I have a baby. I find that other mum's / health visitors tend to frown on me as Amy is following Gina's routines, and also that there are very few activities / mother and baby groups that run at times that fit in with Amy's schedule. If you're out there in the same situation, please get in touch - I need to know that I'm not the only mum in the world who is lonely, but at the same time happy that they have a contented little baby who eats and sleeps like a dream!

Like Lizzer I too find it strange as too why anybody would want to put a baby into a routine (I know Bloss this really helped your baby). I too have done my own thing, what I have felt right for my baby and he has found his own routine. Nearly everyday, he will sleep at almost exactly the same times for the same amount of time. He is happy and content and only occassionlly will he miss his sleep if he is having so much fun playing. On these times there is no why I would be able to get him to sleep, how do you force a baby to go to sleep. We are able to go out and about whenever we like and go to all the baby groups that we like. Dont you feel you are missing out on the fun of having a baby instead of living by a strict routine.

I've followed the routines now for some time, and I also shrink from 'admitting' to it, but I have to say it does p* me off when people keep banging on about the rigidity of it, and how they have some carefree life where they can go where then want & when they want with their children. (I very often hear the same people moaning "little johnny was up till 10 pm playing football last night. I'm so tired etc etc).

Frankly, I think my children - all children - have the right to, and deserve a reasonable amount of decent sleep - and I don't think you can get that when been pushed in a buggy or whatever. I think you need bed for that. I also believe babies and toddlers feel more secure with the predicability of a routine.

Joe, you seem to critise the routines, yet you seem to follow one yourself, it just doesn't happen to be one recommendd by GF. So what.

I find that I've had more fun with my babies when I've put them first and we're all well rested and all of our needs have been given consideration.

Sorry everyone, as I said earlier, I only started this thread to get in contact with other mum's who are using Gina Ford's routines, not to start a discussion about the merits or otherwise of using her routines. I accept that many mums out there do not agree with using routines, dislike Gina Ford etc.. and I do not have a problem with. Each mother is entitled to bring up her children as she wants, and I am all for that. It just happens that I have chosen to use Gina Ford's routines. Some of the things that have been said on this thread have made me angry - I don't know why, they just have. All I was looking for was some support from other Gina mum's - thanks to all those who have given this.

Please everyone stop criticising each other! Poor susiet, not the gentle support that she wanted. Scummymummy, why do you always have to be so b**y abrasive????

Bells2, I also followed Ginas routines but now my daughter is well into her second year I find that she's very flexible and we can do anything we want to do. I did find the routines a bit paralysing at first but I believe it set a firm foundation for her sleeping habits which means that we can be flexible now. I think it's the luck of the draw though. I know plenty of non-Gina mums whose kids have more or less the same sleep pattern as mine, so in the long run they all seem to sort themselves out.

Susiet, have a really good look around and try and fit something in to Amys awake times - or maybe adjust the routine one day a week, I found that messing with it for one day didnt really affect my daughter. I think its really important to get out and about. Lots of love.

Mu word Susiet, you put the cat amongst the pigeons on this one! I had to read all the corespondence has I had not heard of Gina Ford, and whilst I would love me 21.2 Yr old and 13 mth old to sleep more (well sleep at all really ), I am with Bloss it does all sound a bit too conformist, babies are as individual as every adult, and lets face it were are all sooooo different and so are babies. On the lonely front have your tried just going for a walk in the park or sitting at a coffee area where you know there will be other Mums and children? I have found wether I am looking for it or not, as soon as someone see me with the littlies, I end up in a conversation!

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Wornout, I certainly did not set out to upset or antagonise anyone. Thanks for your advice. I have started taking Amy to the local NCT "Sitters & Crawlers" once a week. It is good to get out and meet other mums, many of whom seem to be in the same position as me.

PS: Bloss, there's no need to apologise. I think that us Gina mum's have a defensive streak because we are aware that we are critisised. Ho hum!!

It's not that 'we Fordies' are just defensive because we happen to follow her routines - all mums are defensive no matter what they do. This parenting business is a hard one and everyone does it differently, even us 'Fordies' will have our own ways of bringing up our children. One mother will be convinced that her way is the best whilst another will completely disagree.

What we should be doing is giving each other a bit of moral support and saying "Hey, that's great that you have such a contented baby and think that your formula works best, I have my own formula that works well for me too" - criticism does not help anyone.

Especially in the light of what has happened in America and what may happen in the days to come, why don't we all take a bit of time out to be ultra nice to each other. After all, we're all mothers with much the same apprehensions and concerns, and we all want the very best for our children, so lets pool our knowledge and save the condemnations for politicians!

I have just read this thread and it really facinates me. You see baby no1 was born at 27 weeks and therefore spent the first 14 weeks of her life in hospital. This meant when she came home she already had quite a strict routine (feeding exactly every 4 hrs) and it was really quite easy. However with her she often had to be reminded to eat, otherwise she never really got hungry. I would also say due to her size she was also waking once at nigt for a feed until 13 months old (she was only 15lbs at this point, so she still needed it).

With baby no2 I had read GF book and liked the idea of getting into a routine early on, so although I didn't do half the things the book talked about I did do a morning nap, around the same time each day, 2 hrs after lunch and an afternoon nap. This fitted in perfectly with the older one since she still has an afternoon nap (she's 2.5 now). I accept some of the baby's naps are in the car seat, and not in bed, but I do try really hard to have lunch around 1 and naps from 1.30 - 3.30pm. 6 months on things seem to working great. So I can only say to all those who critise GF's routines, bear in mind it is only advice, it really helps to know how much a baby needs to sleep and most of us do have a brain and use the book to BASE a routine on, we don't necessarily follow it to the letter. For others they do follow the book to the letter and it works for them, for yet more they use insinct. However I am glad that I read a book that gave me the courage of my convictions not to feed on demand, and to get a routine established quickly with no2 because I had more time and energy to play with my toddler who knew she would get one to one attention once I'd fed the baby. I cannot critise people who feed on demand, that may suit them, but it wasn't practical for me to be feeding every hour or two. Also with people I know who fed on demand, and went with the baby's routine, all of them gave up bf much earlier than me, and started weaning more quickly because they were so knackered without sleep and having a baby seemingly permanantly attatched to their boob. They also didn't have another one to cope with.

I think after all this waffle I sit somewhere in the middle. GF gives a fantastic guide to how much sleep babies need, and how to get a routine going. Then I think it is up to the individual. If you are one the second child I can only recommend a routine is established as quick as poss, since you then seem to be able to fit much more into the day. All in all it depends on the child however, some are fractious little beasts and some are placid, routine or not.

No help in finding activities which fit into GF's routines, but I like to think that you can use her advice as a guide, not as a rule.

Lisav, well said.

I'm sorry for starting on a rant about it Jolly et al, I think I really am interested in learning how you do it - honestly, I'm not just after an argument all the time and I don't think we are criticising so much as sharing opinions...?

It's true that every Mum is on the defensive no matter what they do, for example how often did I used to feel 'bad' for letting my daughter share my bed. Thankfully through Mumsnet and certain friends I found that this was totally acceptable and that loads of parents did it. So I hope all you Gina-philes find the same.

I am in a mellow mood today after doing my voluntary job in a secondary school that has lots of problems...when you see children like that it makes naps and bedtimes pale into insignifigance - at least we all actually give a damn about our children, which doesn't appear to be the case in that place.

That said, I'm quite happy to start a 'discussion' about this elsewhere on Mumsnet (sorry to Susiet for interuption ) - it is after all a great way to hear other people's viewpoints and then I can have a more learned opinion...

Bloss, hope everything's going well for you

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I don't think I'm ALWAYS abrasive on mumsnet, Jolly.
It seems to me that strongly expressed opinions sometimes make the debate more interesting.
I do get carried away and err on the rude side occasionally, though. I'm not trying to cause grave offence to anyone and I'm really sorry if I have.

Lisav, I like the nickname "Fordies"! A bit more appealing than "Gina-philes" (sorry Lizzer!). I'm actually glad now that I sparked a little debate (not angry anymore, much to the delight of my husband). It has made for an interesting day!

Hoo-hoo!! It's a funny thing this message board malarkey isn't it?! I was feeling really wound up myself about this when I went to bed last night, like why??

Glad you've come round to my way of thinking Susiet -it makes daily life much more interesting with a good debate to keep one on one's toes! Still wish I could be of some help with your original dilemma though.....! (BTW- I don't know where I got the 'gina-philes' term from, I'm sure I didn't invent it though (?) bit too clever for me that, but didn't mean to offend...)

I think I like your plucky remarks v much scummymummy, don't stop!

Bloss my dear, if you need a hand in get your labour started next year then don't hesitate to call on me so I can rub you up the wrong way - it would be an honour! Best back off now though, wouldn't want to be incriminated in you needing a cold shower to cool off - ha ha ha!!

Inky, yes my son does have a kind of routine but it is his own, one he has fallen into himself and if it changes from one day to the next I dont worry. I am curious as to how, as I said previous, as how you force a baby to sleep at certain times.

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Thanks Bloss. It sounds that she has studied (not reading her book probably pointing out the obvious) babies and their natural sleep pattern. My son seems to follow the same sleep pattern, but it is something he has fallen into himself. Does your baby sometimes not follow the routine, if so what happens then. I used to live my life by the clock and I swore never to do it again, though I suppose we all do to a degree (lunchtime times, tea times, sleep times) just some of us decide to do it a little stricter than others.

Hi !

I thought I would add my views to this one ... it is 9:15 and dd is in bed (she is on GF routine!) and she is likely to be asleep until 10 AM (predictable as she is on GF....).. so I can read Mumsnet with my cup of decaf coffee.

To Alih and Bloss - on book number 2 - I'd say that yes the book is a repetition of book 1 (for the first half) but the 2nd part is about potty training, tantrums, how to fit a second baby and so on... so useful but a bit repetitive.

To Chairmum : what is PND ? - I think a lot of Fordies look unhappy because the routine sounds restrictive but Gina herself says that from 4 months old and onwards (once her routines are very well established) you can be a whole lot more flexible and do as you want... I have to say that has proven to be true in our case.

Bells2 and Joe : Once the baby is very familiar with a routine, he will have established a good pattern food and sleep wise so my ds will sometimes go much later for his nap or bed time because we are doing some activity... so what?! the next day he falls right back into the routine : no problems. That is important to realise when a child who is on GF routine starts nursery. Nurseries have their own routines... so ds goes to nursery and follows their routine and when he is not at nursery he does GF - absolutely NO problem to go from one to the next. Nursery has told me (but they may be flattering my ego - who knows?!?!?!) that ds is the one that eats and sleeps the best... maybe it is in his genes : I'll never know ;-)

Joe : a quick one on Gina's experience - she does a lot of research on the topic (besides having been a maternity nurse for 30 years). She often quotes studies from doctors and professors in US, Holland, etc

To all : I don't feel the need to be defensive because I don't really care what others think but to be honest I often notice that ds is a whole lot easier than most other children and to me that's prove that for my son GF was a good method. Whether it is good for all - who knows ? It clearly isn't right for all mothers !!!!

Jodee/Bloss : I am now going to start another thread on GF - to share my experience of having baby number 2 on the routine as well.

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Pupuce, PND = Post Natal Depression

Chairmum,
Where have you read that PND is linked to social isolation ? I have read on this topic as well and never saw this and having known 2 women who did suffer from it, I can say that this wasn't linked. In both cases the depression started very quickly after the baby was born, when they weren't "isolated" or when they wouldn't have yet started a routine (neither were following GF's routine anyway).

I am quite isolated - and luckily I did not suffer from PND with either of my 2 babies.
Also I would not blame GF's routine for my isolation because while some of the coffee mornings may happen while our babies are to nap, nothing has stopped me from inviting people over at that time or even taking baby in her pram to have that coffee (which I have done).
What Susiet is finding difficult are activities which fit with her daughter's awake time... but unless these are activities are daily, she could do them on a weekly basis - it won't mess up the routine or if her daughter is over 4 months old, she could move the routine a bit to fit with these activities.
I have done so myself and had no problem (also see my point about nurseries in my earlier post).

I find this thread fascinating. I am a "fordie" with an 11 week old baby who has been on the routines since week 1.

Why is it that people seem so suprised that we follow Gina ford's methods? Nobody ever says "You demand feed???" or "You believe in long walks with baby???" or "You bath baby in the evening???" Deciding to follow one person's theories on child rearing is no different to following another. Everyone makes their own decisions about what is best for their baby and their lifestyles.

The proof is in the baby. If you have a happy and contented baby, who cares what method you used to get there?

PND and isolation are often linked in research - there are a number of studies that show how group support helps alleviate PND, and that women who have support from various sources are less likely to get PND. A good (though heavy!) textbook which looks at all this and plenty of other stuff is Motherhood and Mental Health (OUP 1998).

We also know that lonely, isolated people are more likely to suffer depression anyway, whatever their life circumstances.

Some of the isolation could be a result of the depression, so it's a cause, not an effect.

Of course this doesn't mean that isolated women always get PND and that women who feel supported never get it.

It's a question of relative probabilities. You are more likely to be depressed in early motherhood if you are alone, unsupported and isolated. Of course GF routines don't 'make' you depressed! But if they make you feel alone, then the alone-ness could increase your risk.

I am not a 'fordie' as this book had not been released when I had my first child (nearly 6), but in answer to an earlier question about the effect of routines on older children - yes it can cause difficulties. My ds established her own routine very early on, and although it did change as she got older, she was definately a child who liked to eat/sleep/play etc at precise times (to within 1/2 hr), I suspect we were as close as possible to being a 'fordie' given she hadn't written it yet! She is now more flexible on most things, but she likes 11 - 12 hours sleep, from whatever time she goes to bed! This means if she has a late night, she will expect to sleep til mid-morning the day after - great on holiday when youngest gets up at 7:00! I, too, would be interested in how GF manages with 2 children, as my youngest never got into a routine, no matter how hard I tried, and I wonder whether this was because the routines had to fit in with older ds routines as well. It would seem to me that if you have 2 children with under 2 years between them you are going to spend all day in the house whilst one or other has a nap!

Debs,

Have a look at the other thread I started called Gina Ford with baby number 2.
Actually my 2 kids are 20 months apart and I have found that putting number 2 on the routine would help them sleep (nap) at the same time - which they didn't initially because number 2 was not on the routine (she was so easy, I didn't think I needed it - have a look at the thread).
By the way, number 2 is 6 weeks old and I do get out with both kids !