Question on bilingualism

[mpops]

Hi everyone. Just went through some of the threads on here - they are very interesting but I can't find exactly what I'm looking for in terms of advice. We've only just found out that I'm pregnant too, so it's a bit too early to be thinking about this but it's such an important thing for me to get it right and make sure I've done all my research ahead of time.

The question is this: me and DH are both Greek and have been living in the UK for 12 years. We communicate in Greek (with a million English words slotted in!). My English is better that DH's. We'd like our child to be fluent in Greek so that they can communicate with our families and feel comfortable and at home on holidays there.

I was thinking the easiest way to do this would be for DH to speak to baby in Greek and for me to speak to baby in English.

But DH reckons we should both speak to our kid in Greek and they'll pick up English at nursery after 9 months. That makes perfect sense, but I'm kind of terrified that baby will feel lost at nursery if they don't understand anything and have no experience of English.

Don't know what to do for the best!

Has anyone had any similar experiences or has any advice? Many thanks!

Hello,
I'm with your husband on this. My baby is 9 months and I think she only understands a handful of words. I would have no qualms about leaving her in an environment where a new language is being spoken at this age.
My baby went to nursery at 6 months in French even though we don't speak French at home. At home I speak Greek and my husband speaks English. I am slightly jealous of you - because while you are scared of your child feeling lost in English, I am worried that mine won't learn good enough Greek because at home she hears me speak English as well as Greek because my husband doesn't speak much Greek. Anyway, while 6 months is younger than 9, I don't think there was any issue at all about her being exposed to a new language at nursery. I did feel awful leaving here there for the first week though - but since then she's settled so well that I'm happy and she enjoys it.
Oh and for your pregnancy: συγχαρητήρια και καλή λευτεριά!

Hello Crip, and thanks for your advice! That's good to know. I guess since our kids are meant to go to nursery early, you're right, it won't make much difference.

Are you able to find playgroups where Greek is spoken where you live, so that your daughter gets more experience of the language?

The last paragraph of your message came out all garbled though. Was that a link you were posting? I'm intrigued!

Thanks again for your help.

Both of you speaking Greek is the way to go for several reasons. The power of English will be so strong your child will need every bit of Greek they can. Also it provides 2 sources of learning (particularly important given idiolects and gendered difference in language use). Given English is the societal language, Greek will need every bit of help it can get.

Thanks! That's very useful and you're both right - relying on only one parent for a whole language is a big ask, especially because we're not really part of any Greek community here and all of our friends are English-speakers.

Hi mpops, I haven't found any Greek playgroups and I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I have some Greek friends, but they don't have kids and I don't see them that often because they're not part of my regular group of people I hang out with.

As for the last two lines - the Greek fonts didn't come out. It said: sygxaritiria kai kali lefteria!

S'euxaristw, crip!

I have another question about this: if we both speak to baby in Greek, does that mean we won't get a chance to read books in English with them? Would all the books have to be in Greek? That's going to be a bit of a challenge (and also sad, as there are so many fantastic English books and I'd like to make the most of our local library...).

Definitely stick to Greek - the more input the better for what will eventually be the minority language and Greek is an important part of your heritage to share with your baby.

As time goes on you may choose to be more flexible and you'll occasionally have to speak English (either out of politeness or because^ you're addressing your child and a non-Greek speaking one) but the more of a habit Greek is for both you and your DH the better.

There are plenty of EAL children in nurseries and schools who have be one fluent in English with no parental input :) in fact English at nursery from 9months is a big headstart. As I said recently on another bilingualism thread words aren't that important to very young children because they're still getting to grips with concept. Context and tone of voice will provide all the cues needed.

Plus you, as presumably the main carer for the first 9 months, should definitely be the one to speak Greek :)

Nothing says you can't read English books or be a bit flexible :) it's easy slotting that in but your family language being Greek.

Don't plan just see how it works out in your family. If you're speaking greek at home then you'll probably keep it like this. As you're surrounded by english you can be sure your little one will hear it and pick it up. Once he or she has friends from school to play & you & dh get to know the parents you'll be speaking in english.

Oh the books thing. I struggle with this. I think it's particularly hard because there seem to be so many more really cool kids books in English.

(By the way, here is the most exciting thing I've bought. It's music rather than a book and I have no idea whether you like this sort of music: www.studio52.gr/info_en.asp?infoID=00000yqu)

Heh, that's great, crip! I think my dad would want me to buy that. I grew up listening to rebetika. I think our kid will be more of Lilipoupoli listener. I've got all the cds already!

Thanks very much for your advice, SnapFrakkleAndPop and Duffel. I guess I was worried about the flexibility of that approach (of both of us speaking to the child in Greek). But I guess that's a more flexible system that OPOL, right?

mpops, just remember that OPOL is a basic system, not a religion. There's always flexibility depending on your situation and what works in your family situation. You can make your own rules, and they can be adapted if your circumstance change.

Hi, not Greek but welsh here! Research inti the Welsh language has shown that it can survive in the border towns or outside Wales if the mother converses.

Far more important for you to speaks your language as you will converse more with your dc than his dad. Also as his English isn't great not a good idea for him to speak English.

My ds had 4 ESL kids (german in his primary school) who hadn't spoken a word of English. Now my son attends a bilingual school in Switzerland and has picked up German well enough to play with the kids in the street and translate for me in the shops! all are doing amazingly well!

I have an Indian friend who moved here and had kids - they go to Swiss kindergarten where they learn in Swiss German, French and high German. They have an english tutor once a week to read reading tree books and they speak punjabi at home - 5 languages!

Kids are amazing at language so don't worry and enjoy your time with your dc.

I'm basing this not on personal experience but lots of threads on MN where people don't speak their mother tongue for whatever reason (they're worried about their child not learning the societal language, they feel their language isn't high status, they don't talk it with anyone except their own family who live in a different country etc) and end up a) struggling because the societal language is getting so dominant, b) regretting that they aren't sharing parts of their heritage with DC and/or c) worrying their DC can't communicate with their family, so they try to reintroduce the minority language and it's hard. From that I conclude it's easier to shift from minority to societal than the other way round so everything in my gut tells me if you start in Greek, which is your home language anyway, you're leaving your options as open as possible and giving Greek the best chance!

As AussieCelt said OPOL isn't a religion. Some people follow it very rigidly (and I can see why because it gives a great deal of stability and the rules are simple), some vary it slightly (eg the whole extended family is having a meal in French and I typically speak English, rather than randomly insert English reminders/reprimands I'll just continue speaking French), others mix languages at will, others go for one language at home, one out and about - many ways! The advantage of picking a way and sticking with it is that it gets you into good habits. The disadvantage of rigidly sticking to an approach is that if it's not working people can be reluctant to re-evaluate so IMO following a set of rules created with an open mind is the most effective approach (and for many that will be OPOL, but not always).

we have similar family circumstances and we speak out native language at home, have videos for the kids in our language (or put them on in our language) and most books so far are in our language as well.
I didn*t bother with speaking english to the dc before they started nursery at all at around 10 months old and they did pick it up really quickly.
I guess english will become more dominant once they start school, so we need to keep an eye on that, but so far they can communicate with grannies and aunties which is great.

I'm ging to go against the concencus here and say that I agree with you and not your huband and everyone else.

My DDs father is south american and he spoke to her entirely in Spanish, I spoke to her entirely in English. We spoke English to each other.

We have been split since Sept. and she still understands Spanish. I dont speak much Spanish to her anymore as mine is limited, but I can do letters, numbers and animals with her. She doesn't see her dad so that is her only input.

I do remember having alot of Greek friends when I was in school and them going to Greek school every Saturday afternoon. If you are in North London, I can find you some of the groups?

Dunno, if that helps, pm me if you need more.

Kingbeat is English your mother tongue? I also gather English was your home language and is the majority language where you are?

Those 2 factors make a huge difference IMO. There is almost no way I would switch to my second language to communicate with my DC except out of linguistic politeness and changing our home language TO the societal language would feel very strange. Greek seems the communicative norm for the OP and if her only concern is related to her DC picking up English, which is the majority language in society, then she shouldn't worry about it.

Also on the it being too early front, OP, it's never to early - the language you speak to your child whilst they're still inside is likely to be the language you continue to communicate with them in and babies start to pick up linguistic cues in the womb and reflect them in their cries from birth - babies cry in their mother tongue

Thanks all very much for your input. I really appreciate it!

I guess one of the things that make me consider making Greek the main family language is that I don't know if flexibility works... I grew up in Greece with a French mum and a Greek dad, and although my mum spoke to me in French for the first few years, she then switched to Greek because she needed to learn it, and although I understand French fluently, I'm not 100% bilingual. Which I find really annoying! It's really important to us that our DC is fluent in Greek and since we'll be the only source of it for them, I guess it makes sense for us to speak it full-time and hopefully baby will have no trouble picking up English at nursery. It kind of worries me, like I said in my first post, whether baby will find listening to English for the first time intimidating and strange but they are adaptable creatures, aren't they?

They are very adaptable, don't worry!

Plus I'd find it absolutely astonishing if you got through 9 months maternity leave without some form of interaction in Emglish that your baby hears! Even if you dont go in for meeting up with NCT friends, going to mother & baby groups, story time at the library, baby music etc you'll still be talking English in shops, you might have the radio or TV on, Health Visitors are going to talk to baby in English - they will have heard it so the sounds will be familiar. Plus tone of voice and context are more important to babies than actual words are and they won't find a gentle tone in any language intimidating :)

We lived in the Netherlands for some years - moved when DCS were small. We decided then that as DH and I didnt speak Dutch (at that point) the home language would be English. DCs went to local school and learnt Dutch quickly. What this meant was that in Dutch the DCs were Dutch, in English they were English.

The advice we had was that so long as the first 'second' language is learnt by the time the child is around 5/6 the linguistics 'chip' in the brain is left switched on. This means that the child is more able to absorb other languages.

mpops my opinion is do what comes naturally to you and dont worry about producing a bilingual child. That will come naturally.

We're in the Netherlands! And our children go to creche 2 days a week (they are 1 and 2) to learn Dutch, DH and I are English so it's English at home. They will have enough exposure to Dutch outside the home.

My friend moved here when her sons were 4 and 8. Both sons were fluent in Dutch well within a year.

Groetjes Undutchable - totally agree. Ours also watched kids TV in Dutch. They were soon laughing along with Spongebob.

Groetjes Gnome!

We're not onto Spongebob yet - it's more Huisje Boomtje Beestje (or something), Teletubbies in Dutch (de zonnetje lacht, de lucht is blauw...), Tweenies in Dutch, oh and Pingu!!

I think you will worry more that your child won't learn enough Greek :-).

We are both Germans and German is our family language. DD started nursery, 4 full days, when she was 11 months and she is absolutely fluent in English.

She understands German perfectly but so far, she is 3.5 now, is mostly answering in English with the odd German word.

I wouldn't worry about your child not learning English.

In practice I speak German to her outside the home unless we are in a discussion with other mums/children or at a baby/toddler class.

You will be fine.

Thanks very much everyone. I think I'm getting my head around it all now. Any exposure to Greek is beneficial basically and we should just do what we would do normally, i.e. speak Greek to one another at home. That makes sense to me and it's good to hear of others' experiences.