another "are 4 or 5 languages too much?" thread - looking for facts and research

[sanam2010]

My 4 month old daughter is currently brought up trilingually the OPOL way, I speak German with her, my husband Turkish, and she will learn English in the full time nursery she attends and when we are together with friends. We do not keep it clean as DH and I often communicate in English together. So she is growing up trinlingually so far.

Now the complication

• my husband is actually bilingual and speaks native Russian as well, so far he hasn't mixed it in, which means DD most likely will never learn it. If he did mix it in, she could learn a bit of both his languages, maybe get confused, but with these two languages we'd be fine if she only gets to a conversational level, as she will never do schooling in them, so we are wondering if it is worth it just to add another language?
• the only outstanding state school in our area is bilingual English/French. So our option is either pay for private school, or send her to the bilingual track of a state school, which would mean half her schooling would be in French.

I speak 3 languages fluently as almost everyone in my family and my husband speaks 5 languages fluently, my grandmother even speaks 9 languages and used to be an interpreter, so I assume my DD should have an above average talent for languages.

So I think it would be great if she could grow up with 5 languages, at least she would have a perfect accent at all, even though she might only be native standard in two or three of them.

My only worry here is if it will negatively impact her performance at school, for example if her English will be worse like this than if she went to a pure English school, and obviously if her performance in the French subjects of the bilingual school will be below what it could be if she went to an English school. On the other hand, I think in the long run it is more beneficial to be fluent in five languages than to have good primary school grades, and maybe it doesn't even make a difference.

I know popular opinion is that this could be too much (esp DH mixing two languages), but I wonder if there is any solid research done one this (AussieCelt, I am counting on you!!). What is the evidence? Surely, if my husband could learn five languages (his two native languages plus three learning in adolescence), it should be even easier to learn five from birth?

Interested to hear what people think about the third home language as well as bilingual schooling. thanks!

I think in principle multiple languages are fine - I know quadrilingual children who cope with 2 home languages and bilingual schooling in another 2. Her school performance need not be lower than average.

One point to consider, assuming you're in the UK, is that if the bilingual schools are the ones attached to the Lycée CDG they are very hard to get into if you're not French/francophone so don't make decisions based on the assumption of bilingual schooling! You may not get it.

IME of 2 families who have a parent speaking 2 languages 1 is going fine (Hebrew at set times, 1 home language is also a community language) the other is disastrous (French/Arabic as and when because that's how the father's family seem to communicate with another home language and a 4th community language). I think it can work but needs to be within a framework eg bathtime or bedtime story is in Russian. I plan to get DH to do something similar with Dutch once our 2 main languages are well established.

I'd also be watchful of any delays and have a clear priorities so if ant issues do arise you know which languages are a priority for you.

Sorry none of that is particularly factual or giving you research! I don't think there's much research on 4 languages or bilingual schooling + multiple home languages because cases like that are quite rare.

Sanam, unfortunately there isn't a lot of academic work on polyglot language acquisition. Bilingualism is the subject of a considerable amount of research as it's very common (in fact the norm globally). Trilingualism has some incidental research but when it comes to more than 3 languages it's mostly anecdotal.

However, some of the principles that attach to bilingualism seem to extrapolate to multiple language acquisition. The factors that impede or facilitate bilingualism will impede and facilitate multilingualism.

How many languages can 1 child acquire natively? We don't know. Charles Berlitz had 8 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Berlitz) and acquired many more over his life. I personally know 3 kids who are functionally quadrilingual and a 12-year old who has 5 (3 societal, 2 OPOL). I don't know any with more than 5.

From personal experience, if you don't live in a naturally multilingual environment (read society) it requires significant parental effort to foster 4 or more languages. Even though our daughter probably has less exposure to English (our societal language) than any of her other 3 languages individually, it is really starting to dominate because it is the societal language and carries all that prestige/in-group status. However, her command of all 4 languages is remarkably good because we go to enormous lengths to make sure that the 3 non-societal ones are integrated into her social life and activities. Very little English is in our house: TV, radio, music, computer operating system and software all in languages other than English, and we socialise in several languages so it's just part of the landscape of our lives. It has required a huge effort, lots of planning and time on our part (oh, and discipline!), but it has been more than worth it.

In relation to your question about school performance, it depends on when the school language is introduced. If you can get her into a playgroup or pre-school in that language, the first weeks of school will be much easier. If the school is decent and the teachers are aware of your daughter's linguistic background, they should be able to deal with those issues that do arise. Bilingual schools are generally much more adept at dealing with language issues than single-language ones. However, even if introduced with the first day of school they should adapt, after all plenty of children in Wales don't have much exposure to English before they're 7.

As for your husband introducing Russian, it depends on how much exposure he's going to be able to provide. Passive language aids are poor for acquisition although they can help learn through that language where it's already at an appropriate level. If the exposure to Turkish can be kept up as well as enough Russian, it can be possible but I would counsel against a piecemeal approach - a few words and expressions here and there isn't worth it.

I know I'm biased, but I don't think 4 languages is unreasonable if you're willing to structure it properly. Language acquisition issues will hinder a kid learning 1 or 2 languages as much as one learning 4. By the sound of your family, you'll have plenty of support and understanding which is a huge plus. My wife's family thought we were cruel and insane for the first 5 years of our daughter's life (and people always feel free about expressing what they think about the attractiveness or usefulness of a particular language).

I have just come from a business presentation this week where we were told that Russian expenditure and customer bases have grown by 200% in the UK. So a very useful language for the future of business along with Spanish and Chinese.

I speak Welsh, English (as Aussie said no exposure to English before 4 in welsh schools), French, Spanish and I am now learning Swiss German and high german. I find immersion the best way but I do run though words in each language from strong to weak before I get them sometimes.....I think this is due to having a 40 year old brain with a challenging role.

My cousin is a teacher in a welsh speaking school and has Polish kids attending this year in large numbers as they heard the reputation is good. She explained they wouldn't speak any english but they didn't care. So there will be a population of kids in a little town in Wales speaking Polish, English and Welsh, and probably a bit of Russian too dependant on their family background, and probably speaking Welsh better than their WSL peers!

My son is in bilingual school learning English, French, high German and Swiss German and he gets a spattering of welsh stories at bedtime. I try not to over think it personally.

The best piece of advice I was given is not too assume that your kids are of the same or less intelligence or willingness to learn as you. They are probably more capable!
My cousin is very proud of her class thi

Too not thi sorry - language skills are there - typing with sausage fingers still needs work!