Help me. Please. Why is bedtime going so wrong?

[JazzieJeff]

Bit of background;

Ive also posted this in sleep, but im desparate. DS is 15 weeks and is otherwise a jolly little chap all day, doesn't really cry etc. He naps well during the day, and sleeps well at night.

But... Come 5pm, he morphs into a nightmare baby. Screaming, refusing food, going basically mental. He'll stop for his bath but start up again as soon as you start dressing him. Every. Single. Night. I have tried everything. Everything! He settles by 7pm (usually), then has a dream feed at 10ish and then gets up at 8am. He's so good, but I dread this time with him. I'm at my wits end. Please help me break this cycle, help me understand and help my DS. His temp etc is fine. It's been getting extreme over the past ten days, I would say.

Please help me.

Ok. First things first. What is he sleep pattern through the day. How much nap time is he getting?

He sleeps half an hour in the morning, 2 hours about midday and about 20 minutes between 4:30 and 5pm before his feed, sometimes less. I've tried cutting back on this last nap; no difference. He's fine within 10 minutes of being in his cot with the light out. He's been asleep for 40 minutes now. But between 5pm and 6:25, all hell breaks loose. He is quiet and happy the rest of the time.

While you post back, I'm just going to hazard a guess that by 5pm, he's hitting a major wall of tiredness. Too tired to eat, too tired to even get himself to sleep.

My DH used to think I was mad with DS (our second baby) but at the weekends, when he bathed him, I would tell him on pain of death was he to get DS to my boob any later than 5.45, because if he even went 5 mins or so beyond that, he'd be so hysterical, I could never get him latched on. And because he wouldn't feed, he wouldn't sleep, and because he wouldn't sleep, he wouldn't feed. And on, and on.

You will get a lot of diff opinions on MN regarding this, but around this time, with both my DC's I started to introduce some semblance of routine, and my god it was a life saver.

They would have a nap in the morning around 9, across lunchtime for a couple of hours, then again around 4pm.

It was around the time dropped his afternoon nap that I had to catch his bedtime feed in the nick of time.

So sorry it's hell. It will pass - I promise.

We have been in a routine since birth. I love it, I agree with you it's a lifesaver. I don't know what's brought this on, I swear I don't.

x-posts! I see you are doing exactly the same routine as I was

What time are his feeds in that case? Have you tried splitting a feed so that you give him something before his witching hour (2 hours!) then the rest after bath time?

You have probably tried this...

Sounds exactly like my ds. From about 6-20 weeks he would start crying at 5 and not stop.
I thought it was colic as he wd feed really quickly then cry and cry, want more milk, pattern would repeat itself. I used to dread 5pm but it just stopped at about 20 weeks - sorry not much help but I empathise!
Have you ruled out colic? Also, ds never used to have a proper afternoon sleep, just 10 mins or so in the buggy, so looking back on it could have been majorly overtired.
It is hell as I found 5pm was when I had totally run out of energy!

Ok - then it is probably a developmental phase.

Have you go this book The Wonder Weeks? I found it fascinating. It went out of print for a while (I sold mine on ebay and got as much as I had paid for it) but I'm sure it can be got hold of.

I found it fascinating, and was often my only comfort when my DC's (babies then) just starting behaving like loons for no clear or apparent reason.

I'm sure the phase won't last long. Best advice is just to make sure he's not hungry coming up to 5pm and just try to minimise stimulation around that time.

You've tried cutting back on his nap ... But have you tried extending it? Around this age they become so much more alert and I think all the stimulation of the day catches up on them. If he'll nap longer I'd let him nap longer, failing that bring everything forward at bedtime and see what happens.

His feeds are this: 8am, 11:15am, 2:15pm, 5:30 then more at 6:15 if he wants it, but I can't remember the last time he took it then 10:15pm. I dread bath and bed. It used to be a pleasure

It may be small comfort, but I do remember this time of day as particularly tricky. I think, no matter how well organised you are as a mum, a little tiny tot of 15 weeks is going to be flagging by that time - nap or no nap.

Hold tight - it's gets easier and easier

Thankyou ladies (if any of you are daddies, I apologise profusely!) I'll try bringing it forward and get back to you tomorrow xxx

I think Doric has a point - try extending the nap and see what happens.

Also, I'd try giving him some of that 5.30pm feed just before 5pm, before he starts to get scritchy. Then finish it after bath time?

I know you're in the thick of it. But I can also tell you are going to manage this. Remind yourself, this is par for the course. It's normal, and that you have done everything you can to figure out what this little chap needs.

Good luck Jazzie.

JazzieJeff - You are not alone!!!!
I have exactly the same problem with DD who is now 17 weeks, we call it the "witching hour" and it begins at 4pm on the button!

She has been like this since she was about 10 weeks and I have tried everything - nothing seems to have stopped it but she does seem to be growing out of it, very slowly.

We always used to just battle through until about 4.45 when we bathed her (completly different baby) and then as soon as we were dressing her she started again, stopped as soon as the bottle was in her mouth and then completley zonked out by 5!

A few weeks ago, she started falling asleep at about 3.45 and sleeping right through till I woke her at 4.45 for bath as usual and then straight back to sleep again, still fussed as usual after her bath though.

(I think we may have been overstimulating her in an attempt to distract her until 4.45 when she was actually tired the whole time, no signs though, just screaming )

I tried taking her out in the car at 4 which sometimes distracted her and also offering her some milk before her bath with the rest of her feed after which made her a bit calmer on some nights.

I'm convinced it's a combination of tiredness and hunger, I think she is basically so tired and hungry she doesn't know what she wants and is so upset she wont settle, the one good thing is though that is soon as she has had that last feed she is straight to sleep.

One thing I did find that helped though is a dummy. When she was screaming and we couldn't calm her and she wouldn't eat, sucking the dummy seemed to relax her alot and as soon as she started nodding off, I slipped the bottle in.

The past week, we have actually made it till 5.30 with no crying, she was bathed and dressed and as soon as she started fussing, she just wanted her feed. This came totally out of the blue and hopefully will continue.

The only problem is, with going to bed at 5pm, although she is brilliant and sleeps right through, we are now ready for the day at 4.30am . I'm not even going to attempt to keep her up later as she seems to be slightly calmer at this time of day now.

I hope your DS settles soon, it's really hard to be dreading the clock ticking down everyday but hopefully, it will get batter.

What a lovely post Ohgoonthen

See Jazzie - proof positive their is light (albeit small, bit sized chinks!) at the end of the tunnel.

Oh Jazzie - this sounds so familiar. My DS is 7 months now, but we had exactly the same thing at that age.

He would be lovely all day, and then have a meltdown any time from 4pm onwards. Its really hard because they sound so distraught, but try to tell yourself its just him being worn out and needing to unwind from all the stimulation and learning that he had been doing in the day. Definitely nothing you are doing wrong as you sound like a really caring mum who has given a lot of thought to his routine. With my DS it was just a stage he grew out of.

thankyou everyone!

ohgoonthen thankyou for writing your experience down. I dream feed at 10pm to top him up as it were, otherwise he'd wake up super early too so I managed to side-step that one, but this 5pm thing is a real bitch. The screaming comes right from his toes, but he's asleep within 10 minutes of going in his cot. Last night, I swear down I put him in his cot and thought 'i'm going to get angry in a minute' so I walked out, shut the door behind me and he stopped dead and went to sleep. I've never cried so much, or felt so unwanted. Im worried it's because he doesn't want to be near me or be comforted by me; is it possible for a baby to dislike his mum? Is there anything I can do to make him love me some more, or make him feel better?

I will definately try putting him in his cot for a good 45 minutes tomorrow afternoon from about 4pm until 4:45 and then give him food straightaway so at least he's taken a decent supper.

We have this problem with our DD (9 weeks)! Come 5pm she gets super grizzly every night, and I have to put her to bed around 6. She screamed hysterically tonight and took an hour to settle and we had to give her the dummy. I think I waited bit too long in putting her to bed and she got overtired (at 6pm).

My problem is that she wont settle for late afternoon nap no matter what I try.

Few times I've taken her for a walk in the pram and she's slept till 6-6.30 and then happily stayed awake till about 7.30. Think I will have to carry with this every day as tonights screaming episode was just way too upsetting, don't wish to repeat it!

The problem indeed with the 6 pm bedtime is the early mornings..

Jazziejeff - Please don't think it's you, I thought exactly the same thing and it is so depressing. My LO is so happy with me during the day but it really is just tiredness that sets her off in the evenings.

I think also that because we are dreading the evenings, our DC's probably pick up on us being a bit tense too which doesn't help them to relax.

And I do know how the crying can work your last nerve, my DD sounds like she is being strangled when she really gets going but I have finally accepted that theres nothing that I can do except try and calm her down slightly so that she will finally take her feed. It does get slightly easier to cope with.

My DH said something to me when this first started that I always try to remember when bedtime comes, he told me that when babies work themselves up that much, they dont know how to calm themselves so it just gets worse and worse. Whereas we can take a deep breath, or go and sit for 5 mins, babies can't so the best we can do is just try and get them to relax. His technique is to just pick her up and do a funny, bouncy walk around the house . She eventually calms down to a low grumble but it's just enough to get her to eat.

I mentioned in my last post that she had started sleeping before her bath time but this has stopped now. She just did it herself and I went along with it but now she wont nap after about 1.30. I try to just keep the afternoons very calm though, no bouncer which she goes mad in etc etc. I just sit with her and talk to her, sing, things like that which don't get her wound up too much.

Something that I forgot to say actually is that when we do have a particularly bad day, I put her in the bath early and just stretch her bathtime out because she likes to relax in the bath. It seems to work pretty well. On occasion, I take her in the bath with me for about half an hour before 5 which is easier than holding her in the baby bath.

I hope this helps you feel a bit better, I honestly don't think that you are doing anything wrong. My DD doesn't like to be cuddled unless she want's to and like you, when I'm at the end of my tether and walk off for a minute I come back and she's fast asleep or giggling away to herself . Very very frustrating and sometimes heartbreaking but I figure she must be ok if she nods off or is contented a few minutes later.

Right. I've put him down for a 30 minute proper nap in his cot from 4pm until 4:45pm. I'll let you know how it goes...... Thankyou for your post ohgoonthen our LO's are very similar!

Jazzie, sometimes when they're tired babies just want to be left alone to settle. Mine haven't been like that but there are plenty people who can tell you about babies who, when tired, just wanted to be put down and left to get to sleep. It doesn't mean they don't love you - it's more a personality thing I think :)

Just checking in Jazzie, to see how things are going.

Will check in later once witching hour is over (hopefully it will not have begun today!).

Well well well! I've put him down in the afternoon properly in his cot for half an hour between 4:15 and 4:30 and then fed him as soon as he's got up more or less. Then I've left him in his chair with either classic fm on or something by David Attenborough; his voice seems to relax him! Last night we only got tears at about 6:15 when his babygro went on but he settled within 10 minutes; tonight he started up again when his babygro went on but never got beyond 'ah heh'. I closed the door and didn't hear anything else. So.... Fingers crossed it lasts and thankyou for all the advice! Xxx

Excellent! I think you may have cracked it Jazzie! So pleased for you, I hope you feel a lot more chilled out

DD also nodded off before witching hour tonight and we had the whole bedtime routine without incident, I was thinking of you while I was relaxing with a cup of tea and enjoying a full 40 minutes of silence before bath!

beams with joy